So if she were Christian, would she be speaking the conservative talking points? Why does her being Atheist mean she is liberal? These parents must be really scared that 1 conversation with an Atheist is going to brainwash their kids? Hate to see what happens when these kids have to live among the population of many different beliefs. Lighten up people!! Isn't almost time for the Abortion crosses to go up at Viz--because that's not shoving the conservative talking points down our throats? Dish out, but can't take it. Enrich your kids and let them explore other points of view in the name of education and trust your kids are smart enough to handle it and stay strong in their own beliefs. And no, I'm not an Atheist, but I embrace everyone's beliefs and learn from them.

Without even getting into the issue of her being an athiest, I read nothing here which justifies bringing her to the school on Constitution week. Personally I see the presentation a political leftist liberal sham. She is not qualified as a constitutionalist speaker, just another athiest blocking freedom of religion. People need to recognize that the constitution does not guarantee the right to be free from religion, but to protect the practice of religions. People have misunderstood Jefferson's wall of separation and turned it into a trench. Jefferson was trying to say that the government would not impose its will over religion.

Not an atheist, but I have driven past the anti abortion dead baby signs on 83 with my 8 year old daughter. I think there are plenty of glass houses in Elmhurst.

Mr. Ovando stated "First of all I have a lot of trust in the schools and the teachers. But secondly, I know that in my home, we talk about things. The moral compass my kids are going to get—I don't expect the schools to be doing that. I expect that to be something that we work on together in our home." I believe that is the main point -. how are we to "talk about things" in our homes when we are not duly informed of what the school is presenting. What our children hear in school weighs heavily on them and the content of assemblies is seldom shared at home. Unless this had come to the forefront through outside sources we would be none the wiser and discussion at home would not ensue.

I agree with Jim R., (well stated Jim!). I just dropped my daughter off at York and this is what I find out when I came home? Just like Obama addressing the students in the U.S. and at York a year or two ago, I can't remember, the parents are just meaningless idiots by others' standards. I think the principle and superintendent need to consider who pays their salaries and why they were hired. They are over payed but can someone help me out here, I think at least one of them make over $250,000.00 a year and this is the best they can do for our kids??. Whomever is in charge should be pulling the CAC from it's roll in selection of a speaker. Why should they have the authority? Aren't we the tax paying public paying for this? A minor who isn't anyone except she filled a lawsuit. Big deal, she is not qualified regardless what she believes. I hardly believe listening to this 17 year old will enrich my daughter's life.

Let her speak. As a 17 year old she knows nothing more about religion and philosophy then what her parents forced on her. Her arguments would wilt if she were to debate a learned theologian.

And don't forget that the Citizen Advocacy Center is no more than a ultra left wing propaganda cell. They would be the first ones to stand up against the majority of citizens if that majority advocated something the CAC was against.

It's the 1st amendment she's standing up for and the separation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson, ever hear of him??? And yes, having a President address students about the importance of school is such a terrible message. Get over yourselves.

Looks like we have two Kens commenting from two different points of view. Just an FYI.

@ no joke: she didn't just file a lawsuit, she won. Who better to speak to high school students than another student who participated in an important case regarding constitutional law? She's also a very good public speaker. I suspect the real problem here is that the court agreed with her

Lol @ "Learned theologian". Someone who is truly "learned" would've studied more than one book.
Jim R: How did Jessica interfere with anyone's freedom of religion? People have rights, the government doesn't. That's why she won that case

Its hilarious that they consider upholding the constitution 'leftist'

If the school brought in the student who stood up (with the aclu) for his right to read his personal bible in the lunchroom, you would all be singing a different tune. This is all about Christians getting mad about losing a privilege they shouldn't have had to begin with.

This began because of a lack of transparency from York High School. I will not sign any document without knowing exactly what I am agreeing too. We in our household value highly the teachers at York and seek that our youth attending there maximize their time in the classroom. When there is anything that removes them from that we consider it serious, that is our perogative. My original inquiry for more information was to the teacher from whom it came. I received no response from him the entire day so I emailed the Department head. I simply needed information in order to make a decision whether to sign the form! My other concern was whether the schools and the districts policy on controversial material would be followed, that is that both sides of this issue would be presented. We are asked in this case to trust our respective students teachers to do the balancing because it will be a one sided presentation. Parents need to know that in order to adequately address this at home. That is all I sought, to know, just to have the information I and my family need. I did speak to Maryam Judar at the CAC who needed examples from me to prove that there are in fact liberal and conservative interpretations of the 1st amendment. In my conversation with her she made it clear that she believes there is only one side to this arguement. She invited the speaker.

Kudos to the CAC for inviting a youth who knows enough about the constitution to recognize when it is not being followed. Her age and experiences are the best way to reach students to become more cognizant of the reasons that the country we live in is so great. Separation of church and state was one of the greatest achievements of our revolution and one of the planks of the freedom we are trying to illustrate to the world.

To those of you who feel your student's religious freedoms are being trampled on, you'd better get on the District 205 website and read their Mission statement and Belief statements. This is a public school system, regardless of how conservative the town is. Maybe you SHOULD home school your babies. So you don't agree with atheism, but that's not the point. This district is committed to educate to the needs of ALL the students ("...children of all backgrounds..."), "...challenging each to his or her full potential, and ensuring a foundation for future success in life." This speech is just an example of the district mission. Just a different point of view for some of our coddled and overprotected children to be exposed to. In a few short years, your high school students will be off to Universities, out in the work force, etc. and they WILL be exposed to much more diversity than life in Elmhurst, Illinois. Lastly: Stop accusing those of us who believe in freedom of speech and separation of church and state as if we are somehow of low moral standards.

I think all of you need to grow up and realize that education should not bar people from hearing all opinions on what people believe in. This is the United States of America and our ancestors came hear because we were and are a free nation. Anyone can have an opinion and believe what they want. It doesn't make one more right than the next. Just realize and learn how we can agree to disagree. Americans should know how to stand up for ourselves and also understand that we are all different and thats what really makes us the United States of America. If its one thing we agree on it would definitely be the documents that created this country. They were vague for a reason. It's up to us to defend our rights as Americans. Stop all this fuss about ones belief. No one is forcing them to believe in anything. In the end your children create their own beliefs whether they learn it from you in your home or when they go away to school and educate themselves. I am an American and I support everyones right to speak freely and each and every one of us has a right to our own beliefs. You dont have to agree but we can realize that the option to agree to disagree is there. I am an American.

No wonder that idiot Peter Roskam won here. What a bunch of cowards.

Am I disgusted with yet another very poorly handled York situation where "they could have done better"? Of course. Eveyone in Dupage loves to laugh at York. That is why York admin and our School Board (another round can be voted out in April folks!) compare us to school outside of our surrounding communities.
But, who cares about this 17 year old youngster. Who cares what she says. Our kids are smart enough to know when to listen and when to not. Tell them to take notes (remember most kids tune out things they dont wish to hear and nap during these kinds if things) and then take the time to discuss the event and how it was handled at
dinner. Excellent conversation with our kids. If we did our job well, you will be proud of the conversations you have with your kids.
Let her speak. Who cares. She's an athesist? Again who cares. Let her prove there is no God. Dont fuel that fire here. That is what they want. The Government students
CAN walk out ANYTIME they wish or not attend school during that period/day. They can not be penalized. Parents can also attend the session. It is you right.

Actions always speaks louder than words.

John and Teri said most of what I wanted to say. I am a Catholic Liberal with three kids. I believe firmly in the separation of church and state. I applaud this speaker and am glad she is being brought in. Just as I would applauda Christian, Jew, Muslim, Agnostic, or Budhist etc. for doing something about something they thought was wrong and especially as a kid.

So curious to hear what Karen has to report after actually attending this presentation today...

Any "adults" here throwing negative remarks at this 17 year old girl...you make me sick to my stomach. Educate yourselves, and progress forward. After moving to Elmhurst and living in this uptight town, I'm shocked by the number of "mature" people who still have their heads up their asses. Life isn't black and white, and neither should your mindsets be!

It's really kind of sad that there are as many comments here as there are. The fact that such a relatively small thing like taking time to better understand the Constitution triggers such an uproar in my home town is rather petty. So if you won't let your children see a speaker, who's their same age and will relate to them better than a Constitutional lawyer, why do you let them see movies with people like George Clooney and other "leftist" actors? Do you not let them listen to Beyonce or Jay Z? Because the Obama campaign was offering a chance to go to dinner with the three of them in New York City. Yep. Leftists. The worst

If your beliefs are so fragile that you must shield your ears and your children from opposing views... those beliefs are unworthy of protection.

Now I understand why our community has so many young people who have to hide who they really are! What a shame...

Again, CAC is an ultra left wing cell. One of their missions is to tear the fabric of the status quo and install their own beliefs on the populace. They'll do anything to 'upset the apple cart'. And as witnessed here they are doing a decent job of it.

(Judar claims she was misquoted.) Did anyone bother reading this:

Maryam Judar is one of the organizers of this event from the Citizen Advocacy Center and she says Higgins misquoted her:

Hi. I am Maryam Judar, a community lawyer at Citizen Advocacy Center, who facilitated bringing Jessica Ahlquist to the Chicagoland area to highlight youth who help to keep government accountable and our First Amendment freedoms during Constitution Week.

For the record, I never said that Jessica Ahlquist was inarticulate when I spoke with Laurie Higgins at the Illinois Family Institute. I said that Jessica was a high school student and probably not able to discuss the complexities of First Amendment jurisprudence and that attorneys from the Center would be accompanying Jessica and also speaking to make sure that the law of the land was presented accurately.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/09/17/illinois-family-institute-lashes-out-against-jessica-ahlquist-for-speaking-about-her-case-in-local-high-schools/

These students are high schoolers, not exactly the vulnerable and impressionable babies some of you parents are making them out to be. Critical thinking is very important in York's curriculum, and judging by the comments (some made by former classmates of mine), it seems like the parents are the ones who need an education. This speaker had recent, first-hand experience with constitutional law in action. Though it's true that her age doesn't make her an expert by any means, it should empower a young audience, let them know that they can always make a difference. I'm not an atheist, and don't see how her being an atheist could be threatening in any way. To anyone. If you feel threatened, it's more indicative of something debased in yourself than in a 19 year-old speaker.

I agree that Jessica was a great selection for the assembly. Almost as suitable as Mary Beth Tinker who spoke a couple years ago. Mary Beth is now older, but at the time her lawsuit was filed, she was even younger than Jessica. Since then she has gotten a degree in nursing, which is wonderful but does not make her an expert on the Constitution. High school students do not want to hear a lawyer talk about a lawsuit. They want to hear about a constitution-related experience from someone who was a student - just like them.

Also, I hope that when using the anti-abortion crosses as examples, everyone has been thinking of them as a show of religious freedom equal to Jessica's, and not an inferior one. Remember, claiming that those crosses are "shoving the conservative talking points down our throats" is just as narrow-minded as saying Jessica is shoving Atheism down our throats. Neither of which are true. It does make me wonder though: if a girl had gone to court over the right to wear an anti-abortion t-shirt (or some other 'conservative talking point') would everyone be supporting her as a speaker? The issue would still be about freedom of speech (just like Mary Beth's armband lawsuit was about freedom of speech, rather than the debate over War.) Just something to think about.

Of course not.

Of course they would not Elmhurst Resident. Don't you understand that acceptance is non inclusive to anyone who disagrees with ONE viewpoint - theirs.

And might I add that that Jeremy person is a perfect example...insulting to anyone who doesn't think in his idea of a politically correct world. What a joke.

The only way I get to be free to practice Christianity is if everyone else in the country is free to practice Islam, Judaism, Atheism, etc. That's how freedom of religion and separation of church and state work. Jessica's courage and clear-sightedness should be applauded, because in the end, she is also standing up for my right to worship Jesus. Thank you, Jessica, for standing up for what is right.

When you put your children in public schools, you will have them educated on different viewpoints. If you don't want that, put them in private schools. I'm not for this girl speaking for personal reasons but that doesn't mean that she shouldn't speak. I'm able to distinguish between my own personal views from this, I hope others are too.

Im a former York student. Coming through high school I was the only left-leaning one among my friends and was regularly on the defensive about it. The one thing my friends and I all had in common was our agreement on the Constitution, and our deep belief in our faith (which ranged from Roman Catholic to Serbian Orthodox) We knew that we were going to argue over everything, and believe in different things. But in the end we were still friends because at the end of the day we knew NO ONE was going to agree over politics and faith. And so we left it at that. It makes me laugh that as a young adult (19 years old) my group of friends has more common sense than the parents and leaders of this community. Nancy Crambit had every right to ask for more transparency on the speech, but no right to attack it as a "liberal" conspiracy. Jessica excerised her constitutional right, and won the case for protecting her rights. Now the York Adm. wants to bring her in for CONSITITUTION week to show how one the students peers put what there learning into action. You can argue all you want over the faith and politics of it all, and thats great, because no one ever will come to complete agreement on those subjects, but dont destroy the purpose of the speech which is to inform and empower students. Novel finished :)

On the third floor of York High School there is a mural with a slogan that reads, "Freedom is not free." The painting was initially intended to present the ideas of Military history, however, it seems as though this slogan can now take on a new meaning for York students. As Mr. Ovando states in this article, "Whatever ethnic background, religious background, sexual orientation, we want all our kids to feel safe." I feel more threatened by the parents of our community declaring that our education is merely leftist propaganda. Before Mike Torney retired from teaching at York he was informing his students of documentaries such as "Foxed Out," a movie presenting how right-winged Republicans manipulate the news media. He also presented a documentary informing us of how corporations corrupt our society. He had us read "A Brave New World," he had us analyze "1984," (like Ziggy Man was referring to) but no where in his teaching did he tell students that they were wrong if they disagreed with him. He knew students would disagree with him, but not because of what they truly believed in, but because of what their parents raised them to believe. During Constitution week two years ago students were wearing arm bands that read "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" another lawsuit that the media covered. If students were wearing arm bands that read "Bong Hits 4 Obama" would these right-winged parents be speaking down to our teachers with the same amount of disrespect that they are right now?

If parents are not allowing their children to go to an assembly based upon their own beliefs they are only promoting censorship. Our country was founded upon the ideas of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If you limit your child's access to hearing a woman speak about the people that opposed her, people very similar to the people opposing this assembly, than not only are you disregarding the entire purpose of the event, but are initiating ignorance. Ignorance that clearly proves that "freedom is not free" because if a student is not allowed to listen to a woman speak freely about her past than they aren't allowing their children to fulfill their lives, liberties, or pursuits of happiness. A person learns from hearing multiple sides to a story and deciding what they think is right. Not from feeding the youth with narrow-minded ideals. Talk to an atheist, they decided to be one because they questioned the world, they questioned religion, they questioned the establishment, and any parent who won't let their child go to this assembly is an example of fear. They are only showing a stronger bias than the woman who was voicing justice and tolerance, not closing oneself off to open-mindedness.

"The schools I'm speaking at are getting angry phone calls from parents because I'm an atheist. Think that would happen if I was religious?" -From the Twitter account of Jessica Ahlquist. I find it completely unnecessary for her to demean religions for displaying an aura of superiority like that. It truly isn't fair to say that a girl with that attitude toward religion could get in front of a crowd of high schoolers and deliver a completely unbiased speech, even if the majority of it was about constitutional rights. I am a student of the school and witnessed her speak today. While overall the focus of the presentation revolved around the Establishment Clause, Jessica repeated comments that I felt only needed to be said once. Three-four times it was mentioned that her town was 90% Roman Catholic. And it was her town members who abused her with words and threats. While many of these people were hostile towards the girl, I felt that, being Catholic myself, my religion was being singled out as the one attacking her. Kyle S said that the speech was to inform and empower students. I felt belittled and isolated. While I may not agree with the hostilities, it's not fair that Ms. Ahlquist attacked a small group of Christians attempting to preserve tradition. Based on comments by some of you it'll be hard to take a student's word that she belittles religion. Thankfully, you don't have to. You can take it from her http://twitter.com/jessicaahlquist/status/247712554997141504.

Comment removed for violating our terms of use. No profanity.

No joke, anyone could have gotten up and walk out or not attend. That is Your (our) child's right. As we can see, it only takes one voice. If children are "forced", there is a bigger problem which needs to be addressed. By York's own admission, another poorly handled situation with no accountabity. "This is York."

Here's what she said this morning: http://elmhurst.patch.com/articles/york-high-school-jessica-ahlquist-first-amendment-cranston-west-high-school-prayer

I'm also a York student who witnessed Jessica speak today. I'm a christian and consider my self to be very religous. In no way shape or form did I feel my religion was being singled out as "attacking" her. Although I may not believe in her views and beliefs, I respect her right to believe what she wants. It's amazing to me how some parents are attacking a seventeen year old, when they didn't even witness the presentation. Jessica did not try to press atheism on me in any way. In fact, I feel even more strongly about my religion. I'm a high schooler now, soon to be a college student and I know what I beleive in and what I don't. One speaker isn't going to change the way I feel about my religion after I've been practicing it for fifteen years.

your kids in high school get off there backs. Im sure if there was a islamic pray on the wall of a gym or a pray from any other religion some christian parent would be outraged that it was ever even thought of. Since it was the pray of your religion you are angry. I attend church every sunday actively involved in my youth group and go on many mission trips and do other service projects. I will be seeing this speaker and I can personally guarantee anything that she says during her speech will not change my faith. If you are so worried about your child converting to atheism after one speaker then there faith is shaky which is your fault. I have friends who are atheist and I know for a fact it wasn't because they heard some high schoolers speech about a pray on a wall but because they either simply don't believe or they are overly sick of the religion because it was shoved down there throats by overly protective parents

Everyone here just needs to chill..
None of your kids seem to care as much as you do...or maybe they were brainwashed already! DON'T DRINK THE SCHOOL FOUNTAIN WATER!! They programmed it with leftist ideals!
Calm down people. I'm a student at York and I do not care who comes to speak to me.
If I disagree with them, then I can make my own decision if I want to stay or not. Nothing is being shoved down my throat. I'm a "Big Boy" and I know where I stand on issues. Some parents just need to give their kids a little more independence..

Brody - Really? No need to drop the F-bomb here.

Sorry Mrs Chadra, I was simply excercising my 1st Amenment right, the freedom of speech. But anyway, you Elmhurst parents flip out over anything and everything. Honestly her being atheist had no affect on her presentation and from us learning about the 1st Amendment. She excercised her 1st Amendment as a High School student and overcame death threats and ignorant comments from uneducated peope like your self. She filed a court case and won, I bet many of you cannot say you have done that. If we had a Christian speaker come, then all the other parents could complain that we are trying to promote Christianity. And it seems like every student except a certain ignorant, handful enjoyed the presentation, it's just you crazy parents that are making this a big deal. So what she's an atheist? I bet there are many teachers in our district that are atheist. Do they try to brainwash us, with their ideas? NO. They teach us and that is exactly what Ms. Ahlquist did today. Oh and by the way, I'm a very faithful Catholic. And I fully support the decisions that our speaker made as a young adolescent.

I personally would consider myself a conservative- but this doesn't mean that I am ignorant to society. That doesn't mean that I believe this entire country needs to be run by the power of God because this entire country does not believe that there is a God. Therefore it is wrong to place biblical representations within public schools unless all other religious books/ beliefs are accounted for as well. If this was a Catholic girl speaking to our school, many of you would be less upset. But what all of you need to understand is that she isn't coming to preach to us to become more liberal (trust me- I wouldn't go) but that you need to respect what she has accomplished and teach your kids to stand up to adversity or they will become lousy followers like the majority of our population. If you have a problem with ethical discussions in your school, consider private because this is America, this is diversity- not White, Anglo-Saxon, Catholic central- and understand that the only way to avoid ignorance is by submerging your children into diversity so they can make their own decisions and values.

Let us discuss issues, not attack individuals.
We should debate whether what is said is good for society, for our town, or whether it is hatred or insulting, or threatening. That prayer on the wall was not hatred, or threatening. Was it insulting? you decide. Let us weigh what is mor important the message or our self interest.

Dear No Joke,

I think you should have made your name Bad Joke. I do not have a BA, I am not a young teacher, and I am not a parent. I am a seventeen-year-old kid and I know how to use that thing on top of my shoulders called a head. So with that in mind, let me respond to some of your points. Here’s one of them,

“The selection was a closed endorsement from a leftest organization. That's not freedom.”

First, how can any person reading these comments trust your opinion on your child’s education when you can’t even spell the word “leftist”? You belief that freedom isn’t allowing the public education system, which like you said is funded by the U.S. government (who supports the freedom of speech), shouldn’t have the right to display “leftist” opinions because the girl speaking is an atheist, but it is freedom. It’s called the first amendment and that’s why this girl was chosen to address the student body. She was taking advantage of her constitutional rights when she took her case to court. Atheism was just the topic at hand, not the point that was trying to be proven.

But, let’s address another one of your points,

“Very funny how you preach open mindedness and how a person learns from hearing multiple viewpoints. Where are those other viewpoints? My child was forced to set through it because it's her class. Forced, she couldn't leave with no other viewpoints being heard. But it's freedom you say. Is that from an educator's view point and not a parent's?”

Ok, I don’t mean to sound like a jerk, but this conversation is about education so I am going to take somewhat of a hit at your grammar. Did you mean your child was forced to sit not set? Also, it’s viewpoint not “view point” is case you were wondering (because you jumped between the two throughout your post). And… it’s my viewpoint, not a teacher’s or a parent’s, but a viewpoint that is neither left nor right because I don’t believe in choosing a political party. In my opinion, it’s un-American because the constitution reads “We the people” not “We the divided people.” You can think I’m preaching open-mindedness, I don’t care, but really I just support it. In addition, your child is forced to sit through a lot more than one assembly. Just as your child is forced under law to go to assemblies, they are required to go school until the age of eighteen. In that time, they will face much more than fifty-two minutes of a seventeen-year-old atheist speaker. They will deal with teachers, left or right, who will feed them false information just as you feed your children false information. We feed ourselves false information, but we, the individuals, are the ones who choose what we believe to be right, not our parents. The only reason I felt obliged to respond to this article was because of the illogical thought processes that have been presented through several comments, such as yours.

In response to your question, “Where are those other viewpoints?” Well, those viewpoints are at home. They are also on TV and, No Joke, excuse me, Bad Joke, I am aware of “the other 85 percent of liberal media that propagandize every minute of every day.” I don’t think I denied that fact because, well, I never brought it up. I didn’t bring it up because my point wasn’t to call out Fox, but to recognize the fact that we had a left-wing teacher at York High School for thirty-five years who was there when Nancy’s children (older than her senior) went there as well. Why wasn’t a leftist issue brought up then? In addition, when did being an atheist mean that you are leftist? Just because a left-wing organization chose the girl to speak does not mean she herself is a member of either political party.

On that note, lets talk about the division of parties.

If you read the article and then the comments, both Ovando and Cramblit mention the importance of informing their children of what they believe to be necessary morals. Nancy states, “We in our household value highly the teachers at York and seek that our youth attending there maximize their time in the classroom. When there is anything that removes them from that we consider it serious, that is our perogative.” This response seems logical to me, but I did laugh because it presents another example of an adult who worries about their child’s education, but can’t spell. It’s “prerogative.” Anyways, Mr. Ovando states, "I've been reflecting on this quite a bit, I have three kids (in elementary school). I know that with their friends, in the hallways and in classrooms they're going to encounter things that as their dad I might have some concerns about.” So it’s clear that Cramblit, who is considered the right-winged spokeswoman of this situation, and Ovando, who is considered to be the left-wing spokesman, do care for their children and their best interests.

Ah, and this brings me to yet another one of your delightful opinions,

“A mind saturated from institutionalized propaganda. But you think you have an open mind.”

Every person’s mind is saturated, but not by institutionalized propaganda, but by socialized propaganda.
I do think I have an open mind, not because of everything that I have learned in school though, but because I’ve realized how social norms affect people. You see, people tend to not realize that they are socialized. They do not realize that they unwillingly allow their beliefs to be altered by the opinions of society, opinions that tend to be demonstrated as facts. If a person wants to be open-minded they must forget about societal expectations because a person cannot establish their own morals, they cannot personally declare what they believe to be objective, if they allow themselves to be manipulated by another person's bias. That’s just it too. That’s the entire issue at hand. You, Bad Joke, along with Cramblit and other conservative parents of the Elmhurst community believe that our teachers are presenting a strong bias to the student body and to your children. Yet, you forget to acknowledge your own bias.

Jessica Ahlquist wasn’t invited to speak to manipulate your children! She was invited to speak to open teen minds to the idea of prejudice! Her example just happened to use atheism, big deal. Your prejudice towards the York staff, CAC, and free-willed atheists only bleeds intolerance, intolerance to the freedom that our country permits, freedom that you wish to limit the youth from.

Earlier, I used family values and television as examples of alternate mediums that one can use to search for the truth. However, I find it very amusing that this entire conversation is taking place on the Internet. Why? Well, because the Internet is the largest source of information with every possible viewpoint, but you don’t seem to be limiting your children from the use of it, no, but from school assemblies. So, again, yes, I do have an open mind. I do use the head on top of my shoulders. Maybe you should try properly using it before you criticize things that you don’t even wish to understand. I’m not here to attack you, No Joke, because like Ovando, I have "a foot in both worlds," but the fact of the matter is, we live in one world and your children will be exposed to a lot more issues than Democrats versus Republicans, Christians versus Atheists, and a teenager versus an adult.

mr. regan..., for someone so young, i found your posts to be amongst the most mature and enjoyable to read (and at least i know that district 205 does teach basic grammar :)...)... . thank you for having the courage and conviction to voice your opinions, using what i believe to be your real name, and i wish you nothing but continued success in your life.

I am a current York student, and today I saw the speech that this article is about. First of all let me establish that I am a Christian and a moderate. The speech today was in no way about promoting liberalism or trying to get conservative kids to not voice their beliefs. The point of the speech was to tell an amazing story of standing up for what you believe in, regardless of political side and to spark discussions among students about the validity of Constitutional arguments that she presented. Personally I know that both my most liberal and most conservative friends were super fired up after this speech. It inspired both sides to stand up for what they believe in.

Basically, what I wish that parents would realize is that we are young adults now. We have the capability of making our own choices. One speech won't change our life. What can be far more damaging than one speaker who you disagree with is parents who argue their children's battles for them. If I disagreed with the speaker's political views, I can stand up for that myself. In fact, the speech implored me to stand up for that, whether it is for the liberal or conservative side. I think this speech even fired up my conservative friends more than my liberal ones, so I don't know what parents are so worried about. We believe what we want to believe. We aren't five years old anymore, we are high school students, and we can handle someone giving a speech, there is really no reason at all to have such a controversy.

Gore/Lieberman '00

She's just one more useful idiot created by the far left wing in this country. But she's just a kid. Hopefully, she'll grow out of it.

Michael Regan, You can personally attack me if that's your thing. Like I stated before, I would have the same reaction if the speaker was selected by a extreme right wing group. But since we live by one of the hotbeds of progressive liberalism it seems that the fight is appropriately with them. There was no counter viewpoint so that's OK as long as you say so. I think there should have been another view presented as many do. Here is one more example; Atheism is a form of religion but was presented as a non-religion. This fact is more than ironic because of the educational setting. Students need to think for themselves but without someone stating this many don't realize the truth.
"There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Albert Einstein, German physicist

Independence you'll never in your entire life develop a fraction of the maturity that Ms Ahlquist has shown in her stand for your Constitution in the face of wall to wall 'Christian' hatred. She is one of the most impressive young women in America today and a hope for a future where bigotry is consigned to history where it belongs.

Einstein- A brilliant mind who believed that there was no traditional God.

No Joke,

I'd like to first respond with a Mahatma Gandhi quote, “There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever."

If you read the very last line of my post it reads, "I’m not here to attack you, No Joke, because like Ovando, I have 'a foot in both worlds,' but the fact of the matter is, we live in one world and your children will be exposed to a lot more issues than Democrats versus Republicans, Christians versus Atheists, and a teenager versus an adult."

In response to your statement, "Students need to think for themselves but without someone stating this many don't realize the truth. " You should probably read some more of the comments posted on here by York students. They seem to be able to stand up for themselves just as easily as I can. ... and what are you going to do when your kid goes to college? Follow them and attempt to continue your raid of intolerance?

I do like your Einstein quote. I'll give your props for that. TrishWms is right though, "A brilliant mind who believed that there was no traditional God."

I'd like to respond with a Mark Twain quote, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled," it seems as though you've fooled yourself.

Eric, you expressed yourself beautifully. My daughter attended the speech, and I have full confidence in her ability to make her own decisions about what she believes. I think it was a wonderful opportunity for her to see a peer who stood up for herself against tremendous odds and persecution, and won. It's a very inspiring story, whatever your religious beliefs. Our young people need intellectual freedom

Again, I didn't respond to your personal attack against me by only singling you out, I believe I did say that you "along with Cramblit and other conservative parents of the Elmhurst community believe that our teachers are presenting a strong bias to the student body and to your children."

With that in mind, I'd like to present three MLK Jr. quotes.

First, "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Second, "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Third, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

I believe Ahlquist's intentions were to show students that she too has a dream. A dream that one day we will live in a nation where people will not be judged by their philosophical and/or "religious" beliefs, "but by the content of their character." Even more so, where freedom to express oneself is more than a few words written on a piece of paper, but accepted morality.

I believe that the "sincere ignorance" of you AND OTHERS is more dangerous than what I, Ahlquist, a leftist staff member, or other York students stand for.

Therefore, your "darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that." I am simply trying to be a guiding light in this situation. I have not admitted to my theological beliefs nor am I going to because that doesn't determine my character. I don't hate you or your beliefs. I simply believe that "hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Love, not in the romantic or family sense, but love for the betterment of humanity and the support of tolerated behavior.

Dear God/goddess/atheist/who gives a toot, don't any of you have jobs/school/hobbies/kids to raise/something better to do? My phone has been going crazy for the past two days because I made the mistake of leaving a short comment on here yesterday morning.
Neither side is going to convince the other, the students have come on here and said they were fine.
IT'S DONE!
IT'S OVER!
SHUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPP!!!

Oh, real quick, I also apologize for making some grammatical errors in my first response to you, I understand that seems to be contradictory. It isn't though, because well, grammar wasn't my overall all point and additionally, I still am a student... I have some more leeway than college educated, privileged, middle-aged adults.

To conclude,

You said, "since we live by one of the hotbeds of progressive liberalism it seems that the fight is appropriately with them."

The article reads,

"Is Ovando surprised at the parent backlash?

'No, I'm not,' he said. 'Being a community that's primarily Catholic or Christian, it doesn't surprise me that someone who is atheist would get a second look in terms of what this presentation is about.'"

Your fight is, I guess, appropriately with you as well, but as much as it may be appropriately with you that does not give you or OTHER parents the right to inappropriately use this freedom to limit others'.

Michael Regan: if you do not write for the York Hi newspaper, you should !! you have a bright future and, right or wrong, I admire your analysis and your willingness to express your opinion ... your enthusiasm to speak out for others reminds me of that famous Niemoller quote (from WWII), "First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me".

I rarely express my opinions with such publicity, however, some of the parents "proneness to exaggerate," and "suppress or modify the truth,” dug very deep into me. Certain individuals regarding this article and its comments forgot "that silence is part of the spiritual discipline of a votary truth." If they had kept their silence, I would have not been influenced to respond. I have had “hesitancy in [my] speech" regarding the topic of this article in other conversations and often it has been "an annoyance” of mine. Although, in this particular situation it gave me a great deal of pleasure because my hesitancy in boldly voicing my opinion allowed me to build the courage to attempt to not allow a “thoughtless word” to escape “my tongue or pen,” but it was my chance to “measure every word” I spoke whether it happened to be “wittingly or unwittingly.”

Intersting that one of York's government teachers, the politically partisan Ms. Ditomasso, had to hear and approve of students' questions before they were asked. If the whole purpose of this speech was to demonstrate that we as students have first ammendment rights, don't you think the right as fundamental as speech would be given freely? Again I say...quite a contradictory presentation.

It is sad to see so many hateful comments in discussing an issue!
If I cannot have it my way I am going to insult you. No wonder our young people have problems.
Goverment can take away your constitution rights, and they will some day.
They can force religion on you, however really faith in Christ cannot be forced, it is a voluntarly act coming from within you in asking Christ to come into you life. It is not Religion! You can go to every church available and still not get it.
(The Church is the body of real belivers in Christ and not a denomination).
Religion is man made. Salvation is a gift from Christ, it cannot be obtained from religion. It's like love it cannot be forced by threat, fear or bribes.
Please do some work on what Thomas Jefferson wrote in his letter to the AnnaBaptist church while he was ambassador to France.
Evolution offends me, should we take it out. No but we should teach the subject along side intelligent design. Also you cannot tell if an individual is a true Christian, you cannot see what is in their heart, but GOD knows.
There are some signs in their lifestyle, but you have to know the individual for a while, we do make mistakes, yes even Christians.
200 years of case law? Please study history of this country. Does anyone know the book used in public schools for many years for learning English? Yes the Bible.
Please also do some research on how crime has gone up in schools since removing God from public schools.

It is sad how today we are concerned with crime, and we have no answer. We try to lower crime by finding excuses for the offender, we attempt to rehabilitate juvenile delinquents, create new programs, put kids on medication for behavior. The jails are full, violent crime is up it is too expensive to house criminals. Solution from experts, lets make unlawfull acts lawfull.
We are so well educated and advanced in 2012, are we?
Lets be serious about what we are teaching are kids. If you are told that you come from an animal, then you will behave like one. Or when you die you stop existing. There is no purpose in caring for others, lets live life selfishly and screw everyone else. Our education system? Are we better educated to solve today's dilemas? Are better then we were 100 years ago?
So, my question is this what's in your heart, and what kind of life have you lived so far? Look at your family. Is it everyone else fault for your problems? Or is it you.
The real sin in Genesis was not that they hate the fruit, but the excuse they made, they did not take responsibility for their actions, Adam blamed the women that God made, and Eve blamed the Serpent. Gee sounds like the problem of today society.
Finally the problem is not Jessica speaking for her beliefs, but the censorship to others that would like to speak about their faith in God.
We would do it for free, we would not charge York $ 400.00

I have 3 kids at York and have been an Elmhurst resident for 17 years. I am a devout Catholic, two of my kids are thoughtful, ethical human beings-and atheists. Our family is a microcosm of American-there has always been free discussion of ideas in our family. It is not a liberal or conservative issue to have a speaker discuss her adventures in dealing with an issue of protection of her constitutional rights. I am amazed every day at the intolerance that pervades our current American society that feels so threatened that they would silence a 17 year old with a story to tell.

I think the outrage stems from parents questioning the values they instilled in their children. If you raised them well, they will stand true to their beliefs and not be easily swayed by anyone, not even a 17 year old girl. I think the world needs to take a Xanex...

i'm not sure whether to laugh or be depressed about the remarks on this post. as bill trudeau said, this blog would be a lot more productive if ms chadra instituted a system that verified the disclosure of identities prior to being granted the right to post. but then, that would get rid of the anonymous crazies. for example, does m's'narc really want us, as a society to NOT attempt to rehabilitate juvenile offenders; oh, how christian is that. did she really say 'if you are told you come from an animal, you will behave like one" ... really ? is her glass really so half empty ... how sad ... how pitiful. seeing comments like young mr regans and others are so re-assuring. it reminds me of the value of not shielding your kids from the evils (and the crazies) of this world. i have two kids at york and neither of them were that impressed by ms ahlquist's presentation. but the greatest part about that fact is that they made that assessment on their own; they didn't need an adult to tell them how to think. thank you york hs ... great civics lesson !!

I think most can agree that both religion and race are emotionally driven. Hence, the profound hype this event has received.

Let's bring this closer to home. I’d like to take a walk through memory lane when I attended York five years ago. A mural was being painted on the walls leading into the gymnasium. It contained student athletes posing in different athletic situations (basketball shots, tennis swings, etc). The mural is still there today. However, when it was being painted the athletic figures were all white kids. It was pointed out and in the following days the figures quickly became more diverse in skin color.

Was it wrong to change a mural to incorporate different races? No. It was the right thing to do. Was it wrong to remove a religious quote? No it was the right thing to do. Could they have added other religious quotes up there to make things fair? Sure.
Let’s not also forget that York used to host major dances on Jewish holidays. Did York fix that? Yes. It was the right thing to do.

In both circumstances someone at York stood up and voiced their opinion. Both emotionally drive by race and religion. Did they get back lashed? No.

When I attended college they brought in a former neonazi skin head to speak. I attended the presentation and learned a lot. Was I conformed? No. Did I walk away with a lot more insight and broaden my horizon? Yes. You can’t shelter your kids forever. They’re going to learn so much outside of your home (and quite frankly this bubble called Elmhurst) that’s out of your control. That’s life. We live in a global and digital world. Everything we’d ever want is at our fingertips. You can choose what to read and what you don’t want to read. You can choose what to believe and what not to believe. Attending this speaker presentation was a choice to broaden the academic scope of young students not to manipulate them in. Do you really think a 17-year old could do that. In one hour? When her real message was to show how YOU can have a voice and YOU can fight for your constitutional rights. She was simply brought in to tell her experience through her lenses-- to tell her personal story with the law.

In the grand scheme of LIFE is this one speech really going to have a profound impact on your child’s life? No. If you look at the big picture the purpose of this speaker was to bring in a peer to talk about her first hand experience with the constitution. She’s saying, ‘Hey, you have a voice just as much as I do. Don’t be afraid and be conscious of what’s around you.'

Props to her. I wouldn’t have known where to start, whom to contact, or had the time.

Tim, are you sure those are facts. Fact may also indicate an allegation or stipulation of something that may or may not be a "true fact".
In college I took some statistics class and found out that stats could be swayed to get the answer that pleases the individual or establishment.
Ask yourself a question, do you really feel safer today then yesterday. Look at Chicago during the weekend? Look at our town, look at the surrounding communities, mass shootings? Do you really feel safe?

The USA has the highest incarceration, well put. Well I guess I must be right, it must be bad out there.
60% consider religious, correct again. However there is a difference between religion and Biblical Christianity. In Scripture God always identifies His followers as a remnant. What is a remnant, it sure is not 60%.
China you are right again, but you must do research not look at polls. In China today there is a religion that is promoted by Communist China, it is not Christianity.

The Christian Church has fled underground due to persecution from the goverment. 14% is what Chinese goverment endorses. You are right again majority are atheist, along with the USSR, Cambodia, and North Korea. Would you like to live there? Look at the atrocities committed in these conutries. Yes also by religious people for religion.
Incarcaration is low in China why? Well you are guilty until proven innocent and innocent is very rare in China. People incarcerated in China do not have a long shelf life. The other way of keeping incarceration down is to execute people. So as you can see the factoid that you looked up is not true or is it true.
Yes China is an atheist nation!

I am not a religious person, I am a Bible believing Christian. I love and care for Jessica, however I do not endorse the campaign that is being waged against Christianity. Trust me Jessica is not what I saw or are seeing in these pages. There are very well organized establishments behind the Jessica presentation. The adult individuals that are promoting this so called first amendment issue, could not have received such exposure as Jessica did.. Kudos to these individuals for using a 17yr student. Jessica stated that this was her first time talking to High Schooler.
I know of students at York that would like to speak on what the Bible has meant in their struggle with drugs, phycological and phyisical abuse, rejection, rape, and other horrific incidents that have changed their lives. But no we cannot do, this might change some of these kids lives for the best. They could become those crusaders that killed people.
Everyone loves religion, why? because it does not have a backbone to stand up for Christ and his true Church. No passion. We go to church on Suday and we leave Him there.
Introspection? How do you gauge your high morals, ethical humanistic social values? Should we learn from Vladinir Lenin, Karl Marx, Joseph Stalin. or Mao.
Or with Christ and what is written in the gospels, especially Paul's gospel.

Here is a famous quote,"If everything just evolved from ‘natural law,’ then man’s opinion, not God’s Word, determines what is right and wrong. If the working class can take power by armed struggle, then this is ‘right,’ regardless of how many must die to bring in the socialist paradise. Communism’s death toll far outranks the Nazis’—probably more than 90 million worldwide.
May the Lord brings you peace and lift the veil from your eyes.
God Bless.

Recently moved down to Tx for and family, my sister is worried about raising her sons in this educational system b/c they wrote out CRITICAL THINKING as a priority in state run education here. We wish the boys would have a chance to attend District 205 as we did, get a chance to meet new people and learn different points of view. When I read this article, I have to remind myself I am reading the patch in Elmhurst, IL and not Elmhurst, Tx !!
I think most recently a parent said they were keeping their kids from attending but they were displeased about this making their students isolated. Well, guess what this speaker is going to talk about; ISOLATION within her own community and education. I'm catholic and I feel my religion has no place in our schools. If my parents wanted this in our middle / high school experience they would have kept us both in Catholic school after 5th grade. I wonder how many of you would sit by if you were living in Skokie, your kid the minotiry in a Jewish dominated school. Where they wanted to bring in a speaker that might talk about something you didn't believe in.
If you raised your kids to think for themselves, then you have nothing to fear from a 17 yr old girl. The ability to sit & listen to someone from a different point of view is critical in this world, in any profession. Why limit your kids from a chance to hear the other side, to force them to use their critical thinking skills. I wish my newphews would get this chance.

The universal ten commandments? Why do you follow such? If you do not believe in God why do you try and do so.
Here is where the truth comes out, Do you really follow the ten commandments?
Nobody does, nobody not even me, I am a sinner just like you are and every one else in this patch discussion. I am not better then the least of this world. But my faith is in what He did for me on Mt. Calvary. I am every day convicting my self of my faults, no excuses. However you and your high morals?
You have never told a lie, you have never lusted, you have never committed theft, you have never hated anyone, Etc..
This is where the difference comes in. I believe in a Creator that chose to enter our world to save me and you from our sins. You believe and hope that you are ok, or a good person. Soooo you are going to gamble on eternity, well good luck once the door is closed you cannot turn back, you have made the decision to reject HIM.
It's like this, I give you a gift from eternal death why, because I love you an you throw it back to my face and tell me to get lost. Good luck.
I however put my faith in what the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did for my sins.
I know Him personaly, I thank him every breath I take and have no fear of death, death is only a shadow it cannot hurt you or me if you know Christ.
Tim if you want to know more let me know. I feel pain in my heart everytime I see a young person taht is being mislead by this world and its ruler.
I will pray for you.

I was first surprised when I saw people heatedly responding to this news article and how its conversation has continued on for days. I then realized that every person who has voiced their opinion anonymously or not is embracing their first amendment so thoroughly that some have become an example of what they stand for and some have become hypocrites. The excitement caused from my surprise lightened, but new excitement was born because my realization reminded me of the fact that history repeats itself and gave me what I believe to be a good idea on how to respond to this situation.

Thomas Jefferson once said, “I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.” His quote is essential while reading my comments because I am not voicing opinions against religion—I am not inquiring into the reasons why Christians are Christians or why they believe what they believe because they are Christian, but how their Christianity not only affects people currently, but how it has affected people in the past. When Christianity was first on the rise, the common faith of society was in the Pagan gods. Christians, who were first seen as cult figures and maniacs, were mocked, tortured, killed, and made an example of. Roughly two thousand years later, the roles have reversed, however, due to the change that time brings most Christians won’t go to the extent of physically hurting someone (although it has happened) because of laws established by government. Now, the people (not all of them, but a decent portion) who were once ostracized for their beliefs are now making examples of American citizens who are not Pagans (because they became the minority of the minorities a while ago), but in this situation specifically, atheists—one Atheist, a teenager who has been deemed an “evil little thing” because she stood up for her Constitutional rights.

I find it ironic that she is quoted as a “little thing” when her beliefs have “[reached] a wide audience,” so wide that her case in Rhode Island has made its way into the Chicago suburbs, where another community of conservative Christians have unwittingly endorsed ignorance by labeling the people who support Jessica Ahlquist as leftists. They don’t leave it at that though, they continue to say that these leftists are saturating “young” minds with “institutionalized propaganda.” Now, I understand that these parents are justified in worrying for their children; I’m not arguing that fact. I’m just questioning whether or not these parents know how to appropriately care for their children.

I’m actually in the process of writing a book. In one chapter, I address the concept of anxiety. The text reads,

“School anxiety was a common fear shared amongst [teenagers] I met and I could tell that it was from the pressure that responsibility brings. This idea can be applied to humanity’s general fear of the unknown and the responsibility that the future brings. What anxiety blinds people from is the fact that, ‘life is lived forwards, but understood backwards,’ as Kierkegaard once said and if you try to declare facts of the future before it comes, that is when you are left curled up in a ball on top of your bed. They say that depression is anger turned inwards and if this is true then to have hate for the future is illogical because you can then never understand the beauty of the past and the growth that time brings.”

The parents opposed to the Constitution Week assembly have voiced that they worry for their children because they fear that they will be incapable of acknowledging Ahlquist’s words as support for American rights, but would view them as promotion and persuasion for atheism. Let me highlight the word “fear” because like I said, I could tell that “anxiety was a common fear shared amongst [teenagers] I met and I could tell that it was from the pressure that responsibility brings,” now, this idea could be applied to teenagers or humanity in general, but for this particular situation lets replace the word “teenagers” with “parents.” In the sentence that immediately follows, lets also replace the words “humanity” and “general” with “Elmhurst’s anxious and conservative parents” and… hm… lets replace the words “the unknown” with “atheism and liberal ideas” and lastly lets replace the word “future” with “new perspective.” My words would now read,

“School anxiety was a common fear shared amongst parents I met and I could tell that is was from the pressure that responsibility brings. This idea can be applied to Elmhurst’s anxious and conservative parents fear of atheism and liberal ideas and the responsibility that new perspective brings.”

Wow, that makes a lot of sense to me! Certain parents within our community have school anxiety because they fear “institutionalized propaganda,” which then causes them to get upset, complain, and limit their child’s access to freedom of speech and religion because of their fear of atheism and liberal ideas and not knowing how to appropriately accept their child’s new perspective because it contradicts theirs! However… I don’t think religious or non-religious students were persuaded to change their beliefs… because hm… that wasn’t the point of the assembly? Ah, that’s right! That’s why I highlighted the word “fear,” because like the first president of the United States once said, “It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.” Well by golly, that seems to be what our conservative parents have done! “Why?” You may ask. Well, because they think that if their child’s beliefs did happen to change that they would be abusing their eloquent faith by replacing it with a new “evil” one. Yeah, this situation is just an “evil little thing,” isn’t it?

Honest Abe has said some interesting words too. Oh yes, that’s right folks. He was labeled “honest” because of his devotion to objectivity, which in case you didn’t know is the basis of all rights and laws in America because they are objective ideals to allow subjective opinions! The sixteenth president stated, “Don’t interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard for our liberties.” It seems to me, that these “concerned” parents desire to censor an Atheist speaker because of their fear that their child isn’t intelligent or independent enough to conclude their own beliefs.

If you have kept up with the on-going conversation within these comments you’ll be aware that I’ve referenced this article itself, the people who have commented on it, Mark Twain, MLK Jr., Gandhi, Kierkegaard, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and I have also responded to quotes by Einstein and Niemoller, and… I’m not done!

Some, because I know I felt this way for a minute, may believe that this conversation has lasted too long and that no one is going to be persuaded on whether they are right or wrong, but… that’s not the point. Each time I’ve replied to this conversation I didn’t know I was going to do it again. However, as I’ve seen the conversation continue, it has progressed, regressed, then progressed, and then regressed. Why? Well, because like another seventeen-year-old student told me through the words of Ayn Rand, “A creative mind is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”

I’m not trying to prove that my morals are superior to the people I disagree with, I’m simply trying to achieve the task of presenting information to them. It is their choice if they do or do not want to be influenced by the words I say. I’m not preaching mindfulness—I’m suggesting it. Personally, I don’t care if one person reading these comments agrees with me or doesn’t. Yeah, I guess my ego would be fed a little bit of arrogant nutrition if I had every person on here agree with me, but like I said, that’s not the point. One must look inward if they wish to understand what is outward. One must question their own views if they wish to be a skeptic and question others’.

“This kid’s philosophizing,” you may say. Of course I am and it’s always bothered me how some people say that with disgust. Everything has philosophy behind it. Your god, their god, her lack of faith in god, our laws, our rights, your morals, other people’s morals. Every word you speak has a philosophy behind it. Why? Because philosophy is defined as “the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct,” and what is the exchange of words? Symbolic sounds that sound silly when you don’t understand them, but when you do, each word you speak is to conduct conversation into the investigation of your curiosity in order to gain the knowledge of truth so you can believe that you are a rational human being. Another quote by Honest Abe is, “I am a firm believer in the people. If given truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts,” this was said by the man who freed African-American slaves because he was aware of the American principles that other white Christians had seemed to forgotten, which is the fundamental structure of American society, that, “All men are born free and equal, and have certain natural, essential, and unalienable rights; among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; that of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property; in fine, that of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.”

That’s some institutionalized propaganda that I dig.

Every historical figure is remembered because they rose above the status quo. Examples of this idea range from Jesus Christ to Adolf Hitler. From what I can see, more so, from what I have learned through history, is that no matter what ethnic background, religious background, gender, or sexual orientation one may circum to, the majority of people tend to respect the status quo. That’s not a problem. Please don’t think I’m saying that it’s one. What I believe is a problem is when the status quo is immoral under a nation’s Constitutional rights and is accepted.

To continue with the idea of freedom presented through the abolition of slavery, Lincoln wasn’t the first president to support this cause. Thomas Jefferson initially wrote an amendment that would abolish it, but he was told to remove it because of “economic concerns,” Washington supported Jefferson though. He stated, "I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of slavery."

White citizens of America tied the Manifest Destiny, an unofficial American document, to their backs and justified the slaughter of Native American nations, going to war against Mexico for Texas, and enslaving Africans, all in the name of God. These people believed they were American! They sure as hell had the title, but I don’t see how their morals were Constitutional. Yeah, it’s said that as of 2006, there are 68 references to God in American codes. I don’t see the Manifest Destiny in one of them. Although this country may be founded upon Christian ideals, I don’t believe any of those references to God say to demolish entire civilizations and I don’t think they say what God to believe in. I don’t hear our government saying, “One nation under my God, but not yours.” Sure, there may be politicians who think that way, but our government as a whole defends your freedom of expression even to the extent that they will accept your lack of belief in (a) God(s). Our government, no matter what the man may do behind the curtain, does allow you to believe in what you wish. In that sense, you’re safe to think as yourself and… what’d Ovando say in the article, again?

"Here's a kid who was in a minority in terms of her religious belief system and she stood up for herself. I want all our kids to feel that is something they can feel safe doing in our school. Whatever ethnic background, religious background, sexual orientation, we want all our kids to feel safe."

Impressive! He seems to be a respectful American! Why? Oh, that’s right, he supports the U.S. Constitution and wants his students to feel safe. So, that really makes me wonder, why is this man forced to face so much defamation because of his willingness to exemplify behavior justified by official U.S. documents? I’d like to see these conservative parents prove to me that their actions regarding censorship are Constitutional. I can rationally imagine an exaggerated irrational argument in my head right now… “Well, Mr. Regan, I was voicing my opinion and standing up for my child and my religious beliefs against supreme liberalism and an ‘evil little thing’ who is attempting to corrupt my child’s mind without even realizing that she is a servant of the devil!” They dramatically sigh and in my head continue to say, “That’s my first amendment right, child. Stay true to your word and don’t manipulate mine.”

Well, I have a well-rounded response for this hypothetical and somewhat exaggerated parent who is symbolic of the Elmhurst parents against the CAC, the intelligence of adolescents, Ovando, and Ahlquist. It is this:

How is having students around the age of seventeen listen to a speaker that they are capable of relating to because she is a seventeen-year-old a… what was the word Nancy Cramblit used? Oh, move. Yes, how is that a leftist move? Oh… I forgot! Liberalism is defined as the “freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion for all belief systems, and the separation of church and state, right to due process and equality under the law,” (Wikipedia and accepted fact). Wait… so does that mean that Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James Garfield, Chester A. Arthur, Benjamin Harrison, William McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Warren G. Hardling, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert C. Hoover, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Richard M. Nixon, Gerald R. Ford, Ronald W. Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and his son are all liberalists and that every Republican president is now deemed a Democrat and the entire Republican party will be demolished overnight because they believe in “freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion for all belief systems, and the separation of church and state, right to due process and equality under the law”? Ha, not twisting your words, but your “disgusting” enemies. ;)

However, since the person telling me to not use Conservatives’ words against them was a figment of my imagination based off of behavior presented through several parent’s comments, I still can use their ideas against them! Yes! Alright, so, since we defined Liberalism lets define Conservatism too. “Historian Gregory Schneider identifies several constants in American conservatism: respect for tradition, support of republicanism, ‘the rule of law and the Christian religion,’ and a defense of ‘Western civilization from the challenges of modernist culture and totalitarian governments,’ (again, Wikipedia, but accepted fact). This is an ironic American and political belief system because we’re referred to as the “young, hip” nation because of our short-lived run, defiance of social norms, inspiring vast amounts of revolution, being ground breaking leaders in the world of technology, being the melting pot, and accepting everyone’s beliefs.

Now, let me remind us of something. This assembly situation at York wasn’t simply Christians versus Atheists or Liberalists versus Conservatives, but one extreme versus another. There’s a scene in the movie “Donnie Darko” that takes place in a high school, which expresses that life is not simply black and white, but there’s more to it than that. There’s more variation. I will be using a segment of the screenplay for support. The scene goes as follows,

<Donnie’s class is watching TV with Kitty Farmer (a conservative and religious teacher)>

TV Narrator: It is time to breathe.

Woman and son on TV: Thank you, Jim Cunningham.

Linda on TV: Thank you, Jim Cunningham.

Jim Cunningham on TV: So now let us begin Life Line exercise number one. Please press “stop” now.

Kitty Farmer: As you can see, the Life Line is divided into two polar extremes. Fear and love. Fear is in the negative energy spectrum. And love is in the positive energy spectrum.

Sean Smith: <Muttered> No duh….

Kitty Farmer: Excuse me? “No duh…” is a product of fear. Now, on each card is a character dilemma which applies to the Life Line. Please… take this…

<Kitty tries to hand a card to Seth Devlin who refuses to take it>

Kitty Farmer: … Thank you. Please read each character dilemma aloud, and place an “X” on the Life Line in the appropriate place. Cherita?

<Cherita gets up, stands by the blackboard, and reads from the card>

Cherita Chen: Juanita has an important math test today. She’s known about the test for several weeks but has not studied. In order to keep from failing her class Juanita decides that she will cheat on the math test.

<Cherita marks an X next to Fear>

Kitty Farmer: Good, good. Very good. Mr. Darko.

<Donnie gets up, stands by the blackboard, and reads from the card>

Donnie Darko: Ling Ling finds a wallet on the ground filled with money. She takes the wallet to the address on the driver’s license but keeps the money inside the wallet. <Scoffs> I-I’m sorry Mrs. Farmer. I don’t get this.

Kitty Farmer: Just place an X on the Life Line in the appropriate place.

Donnie Darko: No, I mean I know what to do, I just don’t get this. You can’t just lump things into two categories. Things aren’t that simple.

Kitty Farmer: The Life Line is divided that way.

Donnie Darko: Life isn’t that simple. I mean who cares if Ling Ling returns the wallet and keeps the money? It has nothing to do with either fear or love.

Kitty Farmer: Fear and love are the deepest of human emotions.

Donnie Darko: Okay. But you’re not listening to me. There are other things that need to be taken into account. Like the whole spectrum of human emotion. You can’t just lump everything into these two categories and then just deny everything else.

Kitty Farmer: If you don’t complete the assignment you’ll get a zero for the day.

Donnie Darko: <deep breath>…

And next thing you know Donnie’s in the principal’s office. The point of this passage is exactly what the protagonist says, “There are other things that need to be taken into account. Like the whole spectrum of human emotion. You can’t just lump everything into these two categories and then just deny everything else.” How old is the character in the movie? Sixteen. So, it’s clear that the writer of the film knew that teenagers are capable of thinking for themselves and being rational as well.

It’s not time that grants wisdom. It’s experience. Now, it’s true, a middle-aged adult has had more experiences than high school students, but it’s not how many experiences one has had that grants them wisdom. It’s how they use them. It’s what a person chooses to learn from a situation, not what they neglect from situations. The parents opposed to Jessica Ahlquist neglected her message and instead judged her character based upon what they believe to be negative philosophical beliefs. They’ve also neglected the potential of people that are younger than them. Neglect can also be thought of as ignorance. Ignorance is a branch of anxiety because of a person’s fear of the truth or fear of being wrong. Parents, the CAC, Ovando, Ahlquist, other York students and teachers, aren’t trying to hurt parents or their children. They’re trying to help them.

If you want to live a happier life that is filled with less hate, please understand what I’ve said. If you don’t choose to agree, well, like I said, that’s your choice and I don’t care what you choose to do with your life as long as your actions don’t negatively affect anyone except yourself.

One last quote from Jefferson, “I was bold in the pursuit of knowledge, never fearing to follow truth and reason to whatever results they led, and bearding every authority which stood in their way.”

Don’t limit people from what they wish to do or who they wish to be because like I said, “you can then never understand the beauty of the past and the growth that time brings.” (Mindfulness within experience.)

To all-
As being at this speech, I have realized the true message of this as a sophomore at a fabulous, free, and caring high school called York. The problem is not that she is atheist!!!! That is not the problem!!! People, you don't have to agree with her beliefs, but she wasn't there to be some pro-left campaigner! She was there to get across a message that we as citizens of the USA, have all the power possible to peacefully demonstrate and use our first amendment rights! As an acquaitance of Brody (who commented way up) I would like to agree with his views that her message was to promote FREEDOM, NOT A SPECIFIC BELIEF! This speech shouldnt be a problem for any of us, as it shouldnt come across as "an attempt at brainwashing students" or "Favoring something different". I would also like to remind you all that TEENAGERS CAN DECIDE WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE! So before these parents say "I dont want my kid hearing this because I dont like it" Too Bad! They can make their own decision on what they want. If a person wanted to listen, then go ahead! If they didnt want to, they dont have to! Its time for teenagers to make decisions that are based on their own beleifs, not the people around them! Lastly, I would like to address a rapidly growing problem-our politicans care more about their jobs than doing the right thing! The board members voted to keep the prayer because thats what the people wanted, not because they didnt like it!

Thank you much, and go USA!!!!

Tim, come on really? Are you reading and digesting what I have said. Barry Lynn?
One more time, religion is not good! Christianity is a personal realtionship with Christ, it is a very narrow road. it does not tolerate other gods. Remember it's all about eternity not today, read your Bible it would help you understand this world better. Please be careful about denominations or cults. The issue is do you want to belong to a club, or do you want to know Christ. Here I will give you some scriptures, it is up to you to look them up.
Matthew 24 vs 4. Or 2 Corinthians 11 vs 13 to 15. 1 Timothy 4 vs.1 to 2. 2 Timothy 4 vs 3. 2 Peter 2 vs 1-3. Well I cannot convince you unless you chose to receive Him. Tim for your information the religious people were the ones that asked Pontius Pilate to crucify Jesus Christ. Think about.

You want to live in China?
Amnesty International has documented widespread human rights violations in China. An estimated 500,000 people are currently enduring punitive detention without charge or trial, and millions are unable to access the legal system to seek redress for their grievances. Harassment, surveillance, house arrest, and imprisonment of human rights defenders are on the rise, and censorship of the Internet and other media has grown. Repression of minority groups, including Tibetans, Uighurs and Mongolians, and of Falun Gong practitioners and Christians who practice their religion outside state-sanctioned churches continues. While the recent reinstatement of Supreme People's Court review of death penalty cases may result in lower numbers of executions, China remains the leading executioner in the world. Look it is very simple only you can chose to accept Him. I cannot convice you, I can only introduce you to the Lord Jesus Christ.
God Bless you Tim.

Michael, Nice name! One extreme vs the other?
This is what Abe stated before his assassination, in his second inaugural address. "Fondly do we hope—fervently do we pray—that this mighty scourge of war might speedily pass away.... Yet if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man’s two hundred years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid with another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago so still it must be said, “the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether".

There is no question That Jefferson did not follow the whole Bible however he was not an atheist, he made his own bible, which I do not accept.
Regarding the truly Christian faith of other great American statesmen who are quoted below.
“. . .Let me live according to those holy rules which Thou hast this day prescribed in Thy holy words. . .Direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ – the way, the truth, and the life. Bless, O’ Lord, all the people of this land.
-George Washington
(Inaugural Prayer before the American people)

“. . .Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National Morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
-George Washington
(Farewell Address)

“Almost all the civil liberties now enjoyed by the world owe their origin to the principles of the Christian religion. . .The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles. . .This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions of government.”
-Noah Webster
In closing Michael we are all fallen creatures that cannot come close to God.
God Bless

Well said, Robert E. These Christian commenters are as afraid of Jessica Alquist as 17th Century Christians feared so-called "witches."

Sorry I really do not get why this anger.
Robert for your information the Ten Commandments are same in scripture. They stand for the Law of God to teach Israel and the world on how to live with each other. We have all failed and we are all doomed. Such rules were called the Law along with 600 other rules that Israel tried to follow and failed miserably.
Values? well it is up to you to do the research on the founders of the USA and how the Bible was instrumental in everything they did. The word freedom is a biblical word. Freedom from the yoke of slavery, which was the Law.
Enslavement, geonocide is not a biblical idea, it is a humanistic approach due to greed, and hatred. You do not know Jesus Christ, you make know of a jesus, but not of the Christ the Savior. Right now you are not qualified to speak of Him, get to know Him first. Not know of Him, but know Him personnaly.
You might also want to research what was the difference between the French revolution and the American revolution. A Christian whose faith is biblcal founded will not force anyone in Christ. Again one more time, true Love is free, not coerced, forced, or a result of manipulation. I am just expressing what my faith, and my freedom under God. You maybe right about certain denominations, but please compare their works with what Christ and Paul has stated in scriptures, they are not the same.

I challenge you and others to research the Bible.
What are you afraid of? You might start feeling love toward people instead of hate.
At one time in my life I was ignorant on the Word. One day I challenged myself to find the truth; I was insulted by the so called Christians and the Bible. Ironically, I received a Bible from an atheist friend of mine. He was given a Bible and was in a process of throwing it in a garbage can. I took it from him, did not know why.
Over a period of time gradually my eyes were opened and my spirit was reconnected with His (GOD). My life has since changed. Here I am, willing to take the insults, and continuing to reply in the hope that eyes might be opened. I guess I can hide or run or shut up, however I have come to realize His (Christ) gift on the Cross for my uneducated buffoon sins, a former excuser of making lies, or whatever you or others may want to call me or insult me. This is nothing when I compare it to how He (Christ) suffered for all of us who are sinners.
Everything that you have tried to pin on the Bible are acts committed by individuals that believe in the human way of fixing this fallen world.

Sorry Mike the feeling of being afraid left my life when I realized the truth in Christ. I love the enemies of Christ; however I can dislike their lifestyle based on Scripture.
Scripture says really well, do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Hell.
Finally this is the last comment that I will make on this page.
But if the Lord permits I will be commenting on other issues of faith down the road.
May the Lord our Savior bring all to everlasting life.
God Bless

Middleschoolnarc says, "Enslavement, geonocide is not a biblical idea, it is a humanistic approach due to greed, and hatred."

Baloney. You apparently haven't read your Bible:

Ephesians 6:5, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling."
Titus 2:9, "Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and give satisfaction in every respect."

Southern Christians used these passages to justify holding slaves.

Regarding genocide: read Leviticus, Exodus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Samuel, Corinthians, and Matthew. In all these books the wholesale slaughter of entire peoples is spoken of with favor. Killing an"evil race" is a good way to establish Justice, Truth, Righteousness, and Love among men.

I like Middleschoolnarc! She makes good sense to me.

Millions of African−Americans are Christians today because their ancestors were converted against their will to the religion of the slave-master.

Hundreds of thousands of American−Indians are Christians today because the Christian missionaries converted their ancestors against their will.

In Europe, it was the same thing. When Rome controlled most of the world, the Roman Emperor, Constantine, in 325 CE forced Christianity onto his subjects.

The people of Lithuania did not become Christians because they read the gospels and decided to accept their teachings. On the contrary, the people of Lithuania were forced into Christianity against their will, as a result of relentless military force.

Lithuania was not the first country that fell victim to a campaign of lethal military force, for the purpose of forced conversion to Christianity. Three entire European nationalities became victims of genocide because they refused to become Christians:

Dear middleschoolnarc, we appreciate what you have written.
Some people you can smack them in the face and they will not see the light.
Thank you hope to hear from you soon.
Hey Karen maybe we can start a page for people of faith.

Now a response for Robert E.
The comments that you have posted are lies nothing but lies.
The Bible clearly states who is the father of all lies. Anyone that goes by his lies is a follower of him. For you and other that have no Faith In Christ, you are 100% right, there is no Christ and never was. This is the reason why you and others in the world will enter Hell on your own account. In the Bible, Christ stated he never knew you or other that have no faith. Flesh and Blood is the main reason Christ (God) had to enter this rotten world. The human Christ suffered so when you enter eternity and stand in his presence for judgment ,you cannot have an excuse. He suffered in is humanity form, He knows everyone's pain. He has given us a way out by paying for our sins and you ahve rejected Him.
You state that people assume or believe was a real person? You just do not get it.
Faith, Faith, Faith... You dear Robert must have been a Catholic that has lost faith.
If and it is just an if you have studied the Bible you would see that Christ story starts in Genesis, and ends in Revelation.
Let me just give you a little education on scripture, and if you have any ounce of spirit still alive you will understand, otherwise you are dead in spirit and soon in body for eternity.
Ok here we go.

Adam and Eve sinned against God, God still looked for them. God is forgiving God, but what did Adam and Eve do Genesis 3vs 12. The man said "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate". 13. The woman said, "the serpent deceived me .
Sound like you? Its the fault of the goverment, religion, my parents, the weather, my friends, etc. etc..
Now you must read the rest for yourself.

Well then we have a flood, which I am sure you believe it never happened.
But remeber one thing only 8 people survived. Hmmm? How many Christians are really with Christ today? Abraham by faith listened to God in a world full of pagan worship, even his father was a pagan, sooo he could not have forced Abraham into faith. Abraham by faith listened to God and followed his instructions. His son Isaac for sacrifice? What a brutal man. Well that is what unbelivers see. Christian see Christ foretold in scripture along with 300 other prophecies made hundred's of years prior to the appearance of Christ. The Jewish nation, just like you, did not believe. What a shame, but this world has not changed.
God knew they would reject him even when hundreds of miracles were performed,
(Josephus talk about it in his writings).which was what the Jews required of their Messiah. Christ came for the Jews, not the Gentiles. Their kingdom was at hand and if they followed Him as priests and bring others (gentiles) to Israel, Christ would establish His kingdom on earth.

Thank you MSN for representing my firm beliefs and your personal witness of your one-on-one relationship with Jesus Christ, the Son of The Living God and LORD of all. My wish is that someone reading this will trust God at His Word and just start a conversation with Him in a "leap" of Faith. Ask God a question one-on-one and ask Him anything. Ask Him if he exists! He said he WILL answer you.

Israel rejected Christ just like you and others are doing so today, no faith.
The gospels are the sole source of information?
Well there are no other writing that have survived like the Bible, hmmm.
Dramatically, when the Bible manuscripts are compared to other ancient writings, they stand alone as the best-preserved literary works of all antiquity. Remarkably, there are thousands of existing Old Testament manuscripts and fragments copied throughout the Middle East, Mediterranean and European regions that agree phenomenally with each other. In addition, these texts substantially agree with the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, which was translated from Hebrew to Greek some time during the 3rd century BC. The Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Israel in the 1940's and 50's, also provide astounding evidence for the reliability of the ancient transmission of the Jewish Scriptures (Old Testament) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd centuries BC. The manuscript evidence for the "New Testament" is also dramatic, with nearly 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and archived so far, at least 5,600 of which are copies and fragments in the original Greek. 4 Some manuscript texts date to the early second and third centuries, with the time between the original autographs and our earliest existing fragment being a remarkably short 40-60 yearsInterestingly, this manuscript evidence far surpasses the manuscript reliability of other ancient writings that we trust as authentic every day.

Look at these comparisons: Julius Caesar's The Gallic Wars (10 manuscripts remain, with the earliest one dating to 1,000 years after the original autograph); Pliny the Younger's Natural History (7 manuscripts; 750 years elapsed); Thucydides' History (8 manuscripts; 1,300 years elapsed); Herodotus' History (8 manuscripts; 1,350 years elapsed); Plato (7 manuscripts; 1,300 years); and Tacitus' Annals (20 manuscripts; 1,000 years)..

Continuing in your education on the Bible.
The 4 Gospels and part of Acts are totally different then what Paul writes.
The only thing that you wrote which I wish more Christians would see is your statement about the apostle Paul. He is very important to the age we live in.
Law vs Grace, please study the concept. Jesus and the 12 or 11 could not go to the Gentiles, we were considered dogs. The apostles did not understand when Christ told them that he would be crucified. Mat 16:21-22 Luke 18:33-34 and John 20:9. This was hidden to them by God. Christ could not disclose the Crucifixition or Resurrection until the day. Paul's Epistles are for us and Jews in the age of Grace.
Totally different dispensetion of God's way of dealing with fallen humanity.
And Yes, Jesus Christ does not exist to you or any other unbeliving individuals.
The reason is stated in Romans 1:16-32. And in 2 Corinthians 4:3-5
In summary the Gospel is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers.
God Bless.

http://mobile.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20thes%202&version=ESV
2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 says it best.

NO, THIS is the bottom line:

We often base our opinions on our beliefs, which can have an uneasy relationship with facts. And rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept. You dig?

My open mind read this:
John 12:44-50 "Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.""

Then in John 14:6-7 " Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”"

Rather than facts driving beliefs, our beliefs can dictate the facts we chose to accept. (i.e. John 12:44-50) You dig?

Robert are you under the influence? I am sorry but your ranting does not compute. Do you have a misanthropic outlook on life that probably stems from a childhood filled with physical and emotional abuse?
No Satan does not jump in your head, it is your ego!
The contradictions that you speak of are due to placing the Old Testament with the 4 gospels and mixing it with Paul’s writings. Law vs.Grace.
2 Timothy 32:16 does not exist.
For your enlightenment Paul is not condemning anyone, in his epistles he is explaining the freedom that we now enjoy today. Law vs. Grace.
This is actually verified by Peter in what you stated 2 Peter 3:16. Please read vs.15. It is directed at you and other with no faith.

A real shot to Heaven is simple, you and others will not have an excuse, you have been mislead or are ignorant of 1Corinthians 15:1-4
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to wisdom given him, vs.16 as he does in all his letters....things hard to understand which ignorant people and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Robert SOMEONE is directing you to these scriptures to lift the veil from your eyes, pay attention. And yes, yes, I repeat yes, Colossians 2:8-9 is for you.
I will also take my little brain with a lot of wisdom from God, my Savior Jesus Christ. And for you enlightenment, he was not a little boy sent by God. He was GOD in human form so he could suffer for you, me and others. This is the reason that He is the only way to Heaven thru HIM with HIM.
Are you a father? Well if you are then you would suffer for your kids, prevent them from getting killed. (Eternal death).
May God open your heart.

This is awesome, let's keep it going.
God Bless

Good luck Robert E. Have a nice life here on earth. It's all you've got.

"Robert SOMEONE is directing you to these scriptures to lift the veil from your eyes, pay attention."

Whoa! You got me! Robert, it is I.

I have been directing you to these scriptures so that you may convince the world, one kool-aid drinker at a time, of your beliefs.

(just think George Burns and "Oh God!")

All I can say is a 17 year old girl took on your all powerful god and your god lost.
The Bible, The Koran, The Book of Mormon, and other books are supposedly the word of God. Many other works are supposedly inspired by God, gods, god-like aliens from the Pleiades, etc. Why should I accept your favorite, and not one of the others?
If God has personally told you that the Bible is His word, why should this out-weigh his personal communication to me saying that it isn't?

Robert and Cronan all I ask is for you gentllemens to ask a simple question to your soul, why is middleschoolnarc taking time to continue in communicating with us.
I have never asked you for money or to join a denomination. There is nothing to personally gain from this discussion. For you however there is a lot to gain and hell to lose. Again nothing for me, I already have received the gift of salvation.
May the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ continue knocking at your heart.

Time is running short. God Bless

All this talk about Jesus Christ, telling God to bless our souls, or any talk of other religions is unnecessary. A person's opinions of eternity and the afterlife have nothing to do with how our government or school systems are ran, so maybe both sides can call it a quits and stop getting off subject.

TIme is not running short. Evil will not consume a person's soul if the don't bow down to an entity they don't believe in. If you want to believe that, be my guest, but don't let your spirituality get in the way of conversation dealing with public affairs that are unrelated to any ideas of faith.

An excerpt from Gandhi's autobiography, The Story of My Experiments with Truth:

'Well, sir, you believe in the existence of God?'

'I do,' said the man in a low tone.

'You also agree that the circumference of the Earth is 28,000 miles, don't you?" said the atheist with a smile of self assurance.

'Indeed.'

'Pray tell me then the size of your God and where he may be?"

'Well, if we but knew, He resides in the hearts of us both.'

'Now, now, don't take me to be a child,' said the champion with a triumphant look at us.

The clergyman assumed a humble silence.

This talk still furthered increased my prejudice towards atheism.

My response:

If atheism is the lack of belief in a god and God "resides in the hearts" of men, then a religious person could say that an Atheist doesn't believe in life. Yet, both think the other is blind, therefore, both do not understand life because they do not understand each other.

Take this idea and apply it to any belief versus any belief. If people aren't willing to understand both sides to a story and conclude their own beliefs rather than referencing one bias that is evident in a continuous stream of sources that only support their claim, they will only further the distance between the compromise that man must create in order to survive.

Compromise. That's the issue because people aren't willing to create one.

Michael since you believe in luck instaed of a loving God, well good luck.

I don't get it? Having a relationship with Jesus Christ gives you love, light, hope and a peace that passes understanding.....who wouldn't want that?

I have love, light, hope and peace...it's called family. That's what I believe in and what I preach. FAMILY. Make time for it. Word.

Hey Cronan you have no idea what love is, and I am sure you have no peace in your heart. Look at your stupid hateful comments directed at others.
Yes I do think your brains were turned off when you were born. The facts driving my beliefs toward you are that you are a goof.
Do you dig?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o&feature=related