Outside an October rally in Somerville, Mass., students gathered in support of the DREAM Act and chanted, "We will learn. We will serve. We will dream."
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As high school seniors prepare to submit their college applications, parents across the country are becoming increasingly concerned about how they will afford the skyrocketing price of college tuition and related fees.
Just this year for instance, the University of Illinois raised its tuition rates by 9.5 percent and their fees by an additional 3.2 percent. Conversely, due to budget deficits, approximately 100,000 Illinois students lost up to $4,500 each in state educational grants for the 2010-11 academic year.
In the past, parents and students relied on federal and state financial aid resources to help them cover college tuition, fees and expenses. Beginning January 2011, however, students who are U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents may receive lower financial aid packages if a controversial bill is voted into law next week.
The Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act of 2010 or DREAM Act of 2010, sponsored by Senator Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) seeks to repeal a portion of a 1996 immigration law that forbids states from offering illegal immigrants educational benefits that are not also available to U.S. citizens. It would allow illegal immigrants to obtain federal educational loans and compete with the neediest U.S. citizens and legal residents for work-study jobs at colleges.
It would also open the door for states to offer illegal immigrants state educational financial aid resources. Finally, although the bill would not allow illegal immigrants to obtain federal grants during their first two years of college, they would be able to obtain federal grants during their third and fourth years of college.
To be eligible for temporary residency status, illegal immigrants would simply have to show that they graduated high school or obtained the high school equivalency (i.e. GED) and were of good moral character from the date the act was passed. Therefore, even certain convicts would be eligible to become legal residents as long as their convictions occurred prior to passage of the Act.
After obtaining a two-year degree or serving in the U.S. military for two years, undocumented immigrants would be able to petition for permanent residency status.
Previous versions of the DREAM Act would have benefitted illegal immigrants who were in the U.S. before the age of 16 and had resided here for at least five years and who were under 35 years old. The House version of the bill, the American Dream Act and the most recent version of the DREAM Act do not have a maximum age clause thus opening up opportunities to countless more illegal immigrants to legalize their status through this act.
Under the older versions of the act, approximately 1.2 million illegal immigrants would be immediately eligible to legalize their status with at least an additional 65,ooo becoming available each year thereafter. Under the new versions, though, it's estimated that up to 2.1 million illegal immigrants would be immediately eligible to legalize their status with many more becoming eligible each year thereafter.
As the bills do not have expiration dates, illegal immigrants would be eligible to legalize their immigration status for decades to come.
Noticeably missing from each of over a dozen prior DREAM Act type bills is any language that would add funds to the federal financial aid program. If passed, current and future U.S. citizen and legal resident beneficiaries of federal financial aid would have to compete for existing financial aid dollars with up to 2.1 million illegal immigrants newly added to the federal financial aid rolls effectively lowering the award amounts for some while eliminating the awards altogether for others.
Although the DREAM Act has been around in various versions since 2000, Congress has never conducted a cost analysis of the act and so there is no solid figure of how much the bill would cost the U.S. taxpayer. Students are able to borrow up to $9,500 per year in federal loans. If just 1.2 million of the estimated 2.1 million illegal immigrants who would immediately benefit from the act applied for student loans, the federal government would have to lend approximately $19.2 billion for the first two years of the act alone.
These figures would increase exponentially the third year after passage because the illegal immigrants would then be eligible for federal grants as well of up to another $9,500 annually per student. These figures do not include funds illegal immigrants would receive under the federal work-study program.
Unless millions of new jobs were created for all these newly legalized workers (and none were lost), it's expected that many would default on their student loans. Currently, the student loan default rate is hovering at about 7 percent.
Aside from adding millions of more people into the federal financial aid rolls without increasing funding for the program, the DREAM Act would also grant illegal immigrants authorization to work, to collect welfare, medicare, social security and unemployment benefits among other benefits. They would be able to petition for their family members to immigrate to the U.S. as well.
Interestingly enough, foreign students legally in the U.S. would still be required to cover their own educational costs. Furthermore, despite the fact that legal international students typically have advanced degrees, have a history of following our laws and regulations and would be cheaper to legalize since they've already paid for their own educational expenses, no new mechanism would be added to allow them to become legal residents in the U.S.
U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) has repeatedly stated that she would vote in favor of the DREAM Act if it came up for a vote in the House. She and other amnesty proponents claim that the bill would educate millions who in turn would be able to start their own businesses for instance.
Opponents of the bill question whether its wise to offer a bailout-type bill for illegal immigrants when more than 14 million Americans are unemployed and many more are underemployed. Additionally, the bill would not require beneficiaries to major in any specific fields so, theoretically, illegal immigrants would receive permanent residency status for completing a general associate degree which could include classes in bowling and basket weaving; hardly the training required to jumpstart the flailing economy through entrepreneurship.
The DREAM Act has been added to the lame-duck Congress' agendas in both houses and is expected to pass in the final days of the Democrat-controlled Congress. Debate on the bill will begin as early as Monday.
If passed, it would be the eighth immigration amnesty/legalization bill to pass in 24 years and would still leave open the possibility of a larger amnesty bill that would address the plight of the remaining 10 million to 18 million illegal immigrants currently in the U.S. who would not be eligible to legalize under the DREAM Act.
Writer's note: As a Latino male, I understand the sensitivities of race relations in the U.S. Please note that no references to race or culture have been made within this piece.
Tony
7:31 am on Sunday, November 28, 2010
It is important you get your facts straight before writing an article about this legislation. Students eligible for the Dream Act would not qualify for Federal Aid for school. The students would only be eligible for federal student loans (which must be paid back), and federal work-study programs. The law also only applies to people who came to the U.S. before they were 16 years old and were living in the U.S. for 5 years prior to the date of enactment.
Karen Chadra
8:48 am on Sunday, November 28, 2010
The opinion piece states: "It would allow illegal immigrants to obtain federal educational loans and compete with the neediest U.S. citizens and legal residents for work-study jobs at colleges."
And, the law benefits "illegal immigrants who were in the U.S. before the age of 16 and had resided here for at least five years." In the most recent version of the bill, "there is no maximum age."
buckminsterfullerene
3:17 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
My comment is really directed to karen...
It states 5 years prior to enactment of the act, that is a big difference then just any 5 years.
It also has a cap at 35 years of age in the most recent bill.
jamie
5:20 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
I pray to God that this dream act passes. I've been in the US since I was 7 years old. When my parents immigrated to the states they went on the right path to get their citizenship but during the process the attorney who was dealing their case never filed for extension of their I-94.(I-94:Is a card that tell a person how long they can stay in the US before returning home or applying for citizenship.) The lawyer had already taken $5000 from my parents for filing our family's case.Due to the lawyer not applying for an extension we became illegal and he never gave us our money back. I'm 20 years old now I cant go to college or join the United States Air Force or any branch of military. I have taken many practice ASVAB test and my scores are always close to 75-80. God bless America! I would die for this country.THIS IS MY COUNTRY AND ALWAYS WILL BE
*I DO PAY MY TAXES THROUGH MY TAX
ID NUMBER.
*I volunteer at the local free medical clinic.
*I donate to money to local and national charities.
*I donate blood,I don't drink,smoke.
*English is the only language I know how to read and write.
*All the money I do make I spend it in the United States because this is my home.
*please you don't have to have sympathy for me but just think about my situation.
GOD BLESS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Jim Court
8:16 am on Sunday, November 28, 2010
All that I have come to realize is that ANY "Dream" of the Government becomes a nightmare oftentimes for its Citizens. We need less Government, not more.
buckminsterfullerene
9:00 am on Monday, November 29, 2010
and the dream act not passing or a comprehensive immigration reform not passing would ensure that we need a gargantuan government to capture, apprehend, imprison, and deport a population of immigrants so massive that they outnumber just about every state in the nation with the exception of just a handful of states.
What size government do we need to deport 12 + million immigrants who at the moment don't have any identity and we don't know who they are because we have taken a stance which ensures they can't attain an identity? $9 billion were spent to deport the record breaking 400,000 immigrants this year, its a massive number but it just scratches the surface and a lot of them were not immigrants that you might consider threatening in any manner to require such a process that included imprisonment.
Anna
8:18 am on Sunday, November 28, 2010
I am a US citizen and a college student (who depends on financial aid) and I support the DREAM Act.
"More specifically, the report concludes, 'In the No DREAMers Left Behind scenario, 2.1 million undocumented immigrants would become legalized and generate approximately $3.6 trillion' over a 40-year period." http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/11/17/dream-act-economic-benefit/ Why not mention the economic benefits of the DREAM Act?
"Beginning January 2011, however, students who are U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents may receive lower financial aid packages if a controversial bill is voted into law next week." There is also no solid basis for this argument since DREAM Act students would not be eligible for pell grants and could only take out student loans, which they would have to pay back with interest.
I know how hard it is to pay for school and I think it is ridiculous that students who have spent the majority of their lives in the US are charged international tuition. It would be impossible and cruel to deport all of the DREAM Act students, so why not give them the chance to become the doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. that they want to become and let them give back to the US with all the taxes they will be making. And of course all the DREAM Act kids who wish to serve in our military and put their lives on the line for this country that they call HOME.
Frank Medina
11:49 pm on Monday, November 29, 2010
Anna, the reason I wrote this article was to debunk the many myths advocates of the DREAM Act spread. The DREAM Act is basically a BAILOUT program FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS. The first thing it does is allow them to become legal residents automatically making them eligible to receive welfare, unemployment, social security and other entitlement benefits and that's before they even step foot on a college campus. They are then given student loans for their first two years of college and are allowed grants and loans after that second years. Illegal aliens who already have two years of college would be immediately eligible for federal grants. They would also be immediately eligible to compete directly for jobs under the federal work study program with the neediest US citizen and legal resident students. But hey, don't take my word for it. I got all my information directly from the text of the bill and not from reports commissioned and distributed by the very people advocating for this irresponsible piece of legislation.
Instead of spending billions on the tuition for those not legally authorized to be here in the first place, why don't we give residency status to international students legally in the US on student visas? They have advanced degrees, don't need us to fund their education and most importantly, have a history of following our laws and regulations.
There are already legal avenues to attend college and join the military. DREAMers have just chosen to circumvent them.
buckminsterfullerene
12:12 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
@ Frank Medina
Where exactly are you getting that they will be able to apply for grants after 2 years, and how will they be able to petition their family immediately, they all have to serve a 6 year conditional resident status, not LPR.
I have read the same bill you read S. 3827, and I do have a question about that particular portion you are talking about, how do you interpret this taken directly out of the bill?
"Notwithstanding any provision of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.), with respect to assistance provided under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070 et seq.), an alien who adjusts status to that of a lawful permanent resident under this Act shall be eligible only for the following assistance under such title" It is section 10 which covers the higher education assistance, and talks about students loans, federal work study and title IV.
The issue is that according to how I interpret the bill they don't become Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR) until 6 years later and after completing the other mandatory requirements that gets them out of conditional status (i.e., the two years of college or the two years of military service). I have not seen anyone hitting on that portion, so maybe I am interpreting that wrong, what's your opinion?
Where are you getting that they would receive grants after completing the first two years of college? I did not see even a hint of that in the bill.
buckminsterfullerene
12:23 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
@ Frank Medina
I do agree that those on Student Visas should be given a path to legal status as they already have advanced degrees and they are getting trained in areas of which we have the highest demand and not enough applicants coming out of college. But this bill is about those that were brought here as children that had no say on the matter. The individuals with student visas knew of their choices, they had a say in the matter and they have mostly grown in their home countries (they usually can't leave the country without giving good amounts of proof that they will be returning back home), but DREAM Act beneficiaries could have arrived as babies, they did not have a say in the matter, they do not know their countries and we already invested in them through public school, to invest on them through college and still expect them to pay back with interest or work for their education just seems fair to me.
I do agree that undocumented immigrants can apply and attend college, and if they are bright enough they can receive private assistance, there are many in college right now but they have no options after graduating, there is no legal path for them legalize their status, that's what the DREAM Act would provide.
Also, how does an undocumented immigrant join the military? unless there is a draft they can't join, and there has not been a draft since the Vietnam war.
Francis
1:38 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
The invasion hasn't stopped and never will until we cut of all welfare entitlements?
WANT THE REALITY OF COSTS? GOOGLE---Illegal immigrant costs and find out for yourself and then you decide? Then go to the Heritage Foundation website and it will explain with graphs, projections and text by the reputable in-depth analysis by Robert Rector.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/06/amnesty-will-cost-us-taxpayers-at-least-26-trillion
Next week will add further enticements for illegal immigrants to come here, if this Dream Act passes?
For immediate release: Are the Liberal extremists under the leadership of Billionaire Ultra-Socialist George Soros, trying to take over the free Internet and place it under government control this December using a secret vote: Go to http://spectator.org/archives/2010/11/24/seizing-the-internet
No Copyright. Distribute freely.
Arthur
3:30 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
Research has shown that providing a legal status for young people who have a proven record of success in the United States would be a boon to the economy and the U.S. workforce. University presidents and educational associations, as well as military recruiters, business and religious leaders, have added their voice to those calling for passage of the bill. The DREAM Act will help boost the number of high-skilled American-raised workers. A 2010 study by the UCLA North American Integration and Development Center estimates that the total earnings of DREAM Act beneficiaries over the course of their working lives would be between $1.4 trillion and $3.6 trillion. Removing the uncertainty of undocumented status allows legalized immigrants to earn higher wages and move into higher-paying occupations, and also encourages them to invest more in their own education, open bank accounts, buy homes, and start businesses.
GET THE REAL FACTS FIRST FRANCIS.
MORE ABOUT IT GO TO:
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/dispelling-dream-act-myths
Francis
1:39 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
All needs to be paid for by your taxes? High on the list of Negatives is that the students will be able to sponsor immediate family members under the chain migration law.
Not so much the students who would become naturalized citizens, but the chain migration that would snowball for all family members. As I have said before we are committing financial suicide, because the majority of guarantors never honor their affidavits to support the people they vouch? In the end the older family folks who have never paid into the Social Security system, become another public welfare liability. Hundreds of thousands or may be millions have been allowed into America on the surety of the original sponsor, who failed to support his-her immediate family. Over the years taxpayers have been confronted with this issue, as the US government never had the man-power to enforce this sponsorship law. Years of non-compliance has become yet another Social Security, (SSI) Supplementary Income of Tax payers left to pay even heavier taxes in support of people who were sponsored and then neglected. The amount of money that cannot even be estimated, that is being appropriated every year to account for the illegal immigration invasion.
buckminsterfullerene
9:19 am on Monday, November 29, 2010
There has been a myth going around that a DREAM Act beneficiary would be able to bring one or two family members with them, or something like that.
The truth is that in order to petition a family member the DREAM Act beneficiary will first have to go through 6 years of conditional status under which they must complete the list of requirements and must keep good moral character as well as a clean criminal record, but after completing that they only get permanent resident status and would need to wait 5 more years before they can apply for US Citizenship status. So after 11 years they may start to petition for other members legally, and really that is the only realistic legal migration offered at this moment, there is no line to get behind unless you are in the extremely wealthy bracket of the country most are immigrating from and we are talking about countries who unlike the US might not give the same opportunity to its citizens in education, and job prospects.
My question is, would it be far more expensive to deport the immigrants are keep them here? Currently we are spending about 23k per deportation, at this cost it will take about a quarter trillion dollars to deport all the immigrants, and in the current rate it would take decades, so we would also have to create a massive government for this purpose, to make the time frame feasible. The DREAM Act looks at a group of applicants that could provide a boost to the economy over the years.
Francis
1:41 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
Here is the full text of the Dream Act (S. 3827: Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act of 2010:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3827
READ the facts about the Dream Act and not the propaganda from Senator Harry Reid's Liberal party leadership that must--END? Sen. Jeff Sessions put out the following release last week on the DREAM Act, that it’s an incremental illegal-alien amnesty bill. IT IS A VERY CAREFULLY PLANNED AMNESTY, FULL OF RHETORIC? BUT EVERY TAXPAYER NEEDS TO READ THE FULL TEXT OF THE WHITE PAPER. Remember your taxes are certain to accelerate upwards, to pay for all these indecent provisions. American citizens are already having money extorted from them to pay for the babies of illegal aliens born here, the education of illegal alien children, the health care for all family members and crammed prisons and jails for convicted illegal alien felons.
Arthur
7:59 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
I'd like to point out that your fear-mongering and blatant lies are just that. You have completely deserted the issue at hand and went on to talk about amnesty, health care and felonies. I think you may have read the wrong article (although it is biased).
If YOU read it very carefully, you will realize that it has been crafted for a specific group of undocumented young people. Specifically, young hard-working people who have graduated from high school or the equivalent and are ready to serve in the military or graduate from college.
buckminsterfullerene
9:30 am on Monday, November 29, 2010
Furthermore, if you read the bill that you cited you would realize it will not give an incentive to future migration as it only covers applicants that came more then 5 years before the enactment of the DREAM Act, and the bill has already been stripped of any kind of tax payer funds funding anything from the applicants. The previous version of the bill back in 2009 had a section that gave a waiver for application fees, that has been taken off, the version from 2007 that almost passed allowed grants, that has been taken off. They have added a upper age cap (considering that this has been in the works for close to 10 years many of the applicants from back then are turning in their 30's) and military requirement after the 2007 failure, that was added by the republicans. Really this bill only looks at applicants that will have to pay their way through college, whether they get loans with interest rates or work for their education. Or it will look at applicants that are willing to risk their lives and serve this country, their home since they were minors, in uniform.
I read Jeff Sessions post, its disappointing and filled with blatant lies about what the DREAM Act actually says. It ignores all the requirements of the DREAM Act, it will not accept criminals, it will only accept those that came as children, they will have to meet a series of requirements, the states determine whether to give in-state tuition or not, not the dream act, as well as many other blatant lies.
Waiting
2:31 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
NO to DREAM act!!
Not in the current form. One of the requirements for eligibility under DREAM act will be "graduated from high school and completed two years of college or honorable military service".
If not, it should at least be changed to "honorable military service" ONLY.
You must be wondering why do I say that?
If the argument in favor of DREAM act is that these kids can contribute by of their college education, there is already a LEGAL way to get your green card - Employment based immigration.
If these kids are so qualified by way of their education why dont they get in line with other folks (who btw need to have a min. of 4 years of college..Masters in most cases and not just 2 years of college). These folks have been waiting in the LEGAL queue for years now.
I am one of those who did my masters in US, my wife is a pharmacist, both well employed BUT we are waiting in the the US green card queue for the past 5 years. We arrived here and have lived here LEGALLY. We never depended on US public funds for our education (high school, college) so "why should we (6 years college) get a RAW deal over an ILLEGAL with a 2 college degree"?
Why should someone having lived here LEGALLY, not used any PUBLIC funds for education and with 6 years in college have to wait 5 years while someone with 2 years college who used public funds for their school education, gets a shortcut???
Is it fair? Reform the LEGAL process first and have these kids get in the line well...
Arthur
3:32 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
Myth: The DREAM Act legalizes criminals and gang members and lets people who have already been ordered deported avoid the law.
Fact: Immigrants convicted of serious crimes are ineligible for DREAM Act status; the DREAM Act excludes from eligibility most immigrants applying for benefits who have been under an order of deportation. Specifically, the DREAM Act states that an applicant may not have already been ordered deported unless they received the order before they were 16 years old.
GET REAL FACTS:
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/dispelling-dream-act-myths
Alyx
5:17 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
Waiting, I suggest you do some research before posting some random junk. They don't get a "speedy" process time and only have to serve 2 years to get the citizenship. Oh no, that's not how it works. Once they apply for the DA, they will be put on conditional status(AKA "probation"- you screw up, you're out) for 6 years, that means: they go to school, or join the military, and in the military, you can't just say, "Hey, my 2 years are up, see ya." because that individual WILL BE disqualified. THEN, after the 6 year probationary status, they will have to APPLY for the citizenship, just like everyone else. And wait in line, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. Get your facts straight, and read first, before posting some idiotic, nonsensical bullsh*t. Thanks.
Arthur
3:25 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
The DREAM Act—a popular proposal to provide legal status to undocumented youth who entered the U.S. as children, graduated from U.S. high schools, and attend college or enter the military—is the target of a smear campaign from anti-immigration hardliners. According to them, passage of the DREAM Act would cheat native-born students out of opportunities. This tired effort to pit immigrants and native-born—whether they are workers or students—against one another is not only destructive, but has no basis in fact. Moreover, it ignores the economic benefits that come from legalizing a group of talented, hard-working individuals who want nothing more than to contribute to America and repay the country for the opportunities they’ve been given.
STOP THE HATE, AND BE REAL
WHAT IS A MYTH AND WHAT ARE THE FACTS ABOUT THE DREAM ACT:
http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/dispelling-dream-act-myths
THE DREAM ACT IS NOT THE A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, ITS A PATH FOR A BETTER COUNTRY! SUPPORT THE DREAM ACT! BE HUMAN!
jamie
5:17 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
THANK YOU SIR
jamie
5:15 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
I pray to God that this dream act passes. I've been in the US since I was 7 years old. When my parents immigrated to the states they went on the right path to get their citizenship but during the process the attorney who was dealing their case never filed for extension of their I-94.(I-94:Is a card that tell a person how long they can stay in the US before returning home or applying for citizenship.) The lawyer had already taken $5000 from my parents for filing our family's case.Due to the lawyer not applying for an extension we became illegal and he never gave us our money back. I'm 20 years old now I cant go to college or join the United States Air Force or any branch of military. I have taken many practice ASVAB test and my scores are always close to 75-80. God bless America! I would die for this country.THIS IS MY COUNTRY AND ALWAYS WILL BE
*I DO PAY MY TAXES THROUGH MY TAX
ID NUMBER.
*I volunteer at the local free medical clinic.
*I donate to money to local and national charities.
*I donate blood,I don't drink,smoke.
*English is the only language I know how to read and write.
*All the money I do make I spend it in the United States because this is my home.
*please you don't have to have sympathy for me but just think about my situation.
GOD BLESS UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Alyx
6:33 pm on Sunday, November 28, 2010
Jamie, I know a LOT of families in the same situation as yourself :(
It is very unfortunate, and it makes my heart ache for my friends who have had this happen to them :(
I respect your courage, dignity and the determination to get through this, I am praying that the DA will pass for all the kids and students to have a bright future such as yourself!
buckminsterfullerene
9:56 am on Monday, November 29, 2010
The DREAM Act does not give grants even in the third of fourth year of college, they just need to complete those requirements within 6 years, but upon completing the requirements they still have to complete the 6 year conditional period and they would still be bound by the DREAM Act and its laws which state they cannot get grants, it does not state it will only be for the first or second year only.
As a student in a university in Illinois I experience the increase in tuition but it has no relevance to the DREAM Act, it was the case of contributors of various schools not giving money to the level they did before the economic downturn. In my university the tuition from students cover about a third of the cost of operating a university, the other two-thirds comes from private donations, there was a decrease in that and tuition increased dramatically.
If the applicant has certain convictions they can't apply, its not that they could have those convictions before the passage and still apply, they just can't its in the requirement that you skipped in your article, the one that refers to the current INA Act.
The senate version retains the age cap and there is another version that is likely to appear which lowers the age cap to 30, and considering that the dream act has been in the works for close to 10 years a lot of the original applicants are turning into their 30's.
DREAM Act applicants are not eligible for financial aid, they can work or get private loans, that's it.
buckminsterfullerene
10:12 am on Monday, November 29, 2010
The applicants had to arrive to the US more then 5 years after the bill was enacted, that's a huge limit. Furthermore, everyone serves the same 6 year conditional period, whether they meet all the requirements immediately or not. In fact, the last section of the DREAM Act talks about the GAO report, which will take 7 years after enactment and state all the potential applicants, the number of individuals that applied, the number of individuals that attained conditional status after meeting the basic initial requirements and finally the number of individuals that completed the conditional status, that part suggest to me that there is a limitation to this bill.
Loans are paid back with interest, the section that excluded application fees has been taken off in the current version so they are required to pay for the application process.
The welfare, medicare, social security benefits and unemployment benefits are only available after you have been in the US legally for a number of years, and I am unsure if the conditional status will count towards the time legally in this country for those kind of benefits. Furthermore, at this moment the demand for college graduates are far greater then colleges are producing, so what this act will do, is take people away from the jobs anyone is qualified to complete and put them in the jobs that require specialized training and not anyone can apply to.
An associates degree has specific ABET requirements.
Frank Medina
12:06 am on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
@buckminsterullerene,
It's a shame that you would use this public forum to further mislead people to believe that the DREAM Act is good.
These are the facts of the DREAM Act, as stated within the text of the bill and thus remain undisputed:
-It lacks an expiration date thereby allowing illegal aliens to legalize their status through this Act until someone in the future passes a law ending this BAILOUT for ILLEGAL ALIENS.
-Millions of illegal aliens will instantly become legal (temporary) residents thereby becoming instantly eligible for welfare, unemployment, medicaid and other entitlement programs
-At a time when there are over 15 million US citizens and legal residents unemployed or underemployed, this Act would add millions more workers to the workforce
-Millions of illegal aliens will immediately be able to compete against poor US citizens and legal residents for jobs under the work study program
-Certain convicted illegal aliens would be eligible to legalize their status under the Act
-These aliens would be immediately eligible to petition for certain family members abroad.
-There are no fees for the DREAM Act and their applications would be given preference over other intending immigrants who have waited years to enter the US legally
-Law enforcement agencies would not be allowed to use information from DREAM Act aplications to prosecute criminal aliens applying for benefits
Only illegal aliens would benefit from this bill at the expense of everyone else.
Tony
7:58 am on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Why are you so adamant about spreading misinformation about the Dream Act? Federal law prohibits anyone with less than 5 years of legal resident status to access welfare. The aliens could not petition for anyone until they had permanent status (six years down the line). And even so, we all know that the line to get in legally may take up to 15 years in some cases (when the petitioner is a US Citizen, which won't happen in this case for another 11 years). There is a trial period of six years before they gain permanent residency and then another five, according to current law, before citizenship. Moreover, current federal law does not allow anyone to regularize their status if they have been in illegal status for over 180 days (because of a 10 year bar on reentry).Convicted aliens of what? Working without authorization? Good moral character and a clean criminal record are required for permanent residency. What do you propose we do with some with these kids who were brought here very young and have been living as Americans for the past 15/20 years in some cases?I agree with your point that we should give international students an option after they graduate. It is ridiculous that we don't make it easier for them to stay legally and many end up staying without a visa. I invite you to look at this problem in search of solutions, instead of demonizing the people who are actually proposing we tackle the issue. Also, I'm sure a sunset provision could be agreed upon.
Frank Medina
6:35 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Tony,
Beneficiaries under the DREAM Act would be exempt from the 3 and 10 year bars. Furthermore, they could petition for a spouse and children immediately. Addidtionally, if you read the text of the law, you'd know that DREAMers would get preference over all other individuals who've tried to become immigrants the legal way. And believe it or not, the DREAM Act specifically allows for certain convicted illegal aliens to also legalize through the program.
If you took the time to read the text of the Act, you'd know I wasn't making any of this stuff up.
I don't ask for much. I just want our government to enforce our laws. US citizens and legal residents don't get to pick and choose which laws we follow. Why should anyone else be allowed to? What do you have against following the rule of law anyways?
buckminsterfullerene
10:18 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3827
there is the bill, quote where it states that they get preferential treatment over all other immigrants as you say its in there. Right now they are individuals that came at a very young age and do not have a path to legalization, that is what this bill is about, a path to legalization for those individuals that have grown up in america and have followed the laws to the best of their abilities. Undocumented immigrants also don't get the option to avoid breaking some laws, for example driving without a license, or getting a job to ensure they have a roof over their heads and food to eat, fact to the matter is that the undocumented immigrants are probably not all plantation workers, but this is a bill about the children, the group of immigrants that have the best opportunity to advance further. The bill cites which laws will clearly exempt them from becoming beneficiaries for the DREAM Act.
Also where does it say anything about them being able to immediately petition for a spouse (as tony mention it would be unrealistic to expect they have a child to petition considering they all had to come before the age of 16, no exception on that part). I guess they could petition someone as an LPR, but, that won't happen for 6 years after they apply for the DREAM Act and an LPR petition is very low on the totem poll, that process alone could take decades and for a spouse, they can't even petition a parent as LPR.
Tony
7:32 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Frank, yes, persons in Legal Permanent Resident Status can apply for their spouses and children. But assuming that these immigrants came in before they were 16 and have been here for at least five years, the likelihood of having a foreign-born child is quite unrealistic. Furthermore, as LPR’s, they could not sponsor an immigrant spouse in illegal status because of the ten year bar (I understand beneficiaries of Dream would be exempt from the bar. But their parents or spouses –assuming they are here illegally - wouldn’t). This is current law. Now, I believe in following the law (although not everyone does, citizens and non-citizens alike – hence the prison system). But I also believe that some laws are not the best ones. Were the Jews aboard the ‘Exodus 1947’ wrong when they tried to “illegally” enter British controlled Palestine? Would someone argue today that the system that kept married women as property under common law, her rights relinquished to that of her husband, was a sound law? Can one affirm that blacks pursuing their liberty on Northern States were acting illegally or that the Fugitive Act, which required citizens to assist in the capture of slaves in order to return them to their slave owners, was morally correct? All I’m saying is, if the system is broken, fix it. These kids did not choose to get on a plane and immigrate here. They were 15 years old. Our laws don’t even allow a 15 year old to have a passport without parental consent.
Karen Chadra
9:40 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Tony, please use quotation marks and attribute your comments to the original author, otherwise it's plagiarism: "Were the Jews aboard the ‘Exodus 1947’ wrong when they tried to “illegally” enter British controlled Palestine? Would someone argue today that the system that kept married women as property under common law, her rights relinquished to that of her husband, was a sound law? Can one affirm that blacks pursuing their liberty on Northern States were acting illegally or that the Fugitive Act, which required citizens to assist in the capture of slaves in order to return them to their slave owners, was morally correct?"
This is word-for-word from OJornal.com: http://my.ojornal.com/news/immigration-america-moving-away-its-own-core-ideals
Tony
10:01 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
@ Karen. Had to reply to my comment since your posting does not allow for replies. I'm the author of that article. Thanks.
Karen Chadra
10:10 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Thank you, Tony. No last names makes identifying people difficult.
Frank Medina
10:50 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Tony,
Comparing illegal aliens in the U.S. today to Jews during the second world war or to the slaves that fled to the north to escape slavery is not only dramatic but also akin to comparing apples to chairs. They're not even in the same category. When the Jews tried to escape to what was then Palestine or to any other countries for that matter, they were escaping to save their lives from certain persecution and death, a right we can all agree should've been afforded to them. The same can be said about the slaves in the US. However, most illegal aliens are not escaping persecution or death. In many cases, many are leaving countries where they actually led comfortable lives. The fact that the majority never apply for asylum proves this point. What many are doing is escaping their responsibility to make their governments accountable to its citizens. Instead of staying in their countries to fight corruption, human rights abuses, etc, they shun their responsibilities and opt to come to the US instead. They exacerbate the problem by sending money home which in turn maintain these dictators firmly in power.
The DREAM Act does nothing more than what I mentioned in the article. Your efforts to romanticize the plight illegal aliens have chosen for themselves by comparing it to what the Jews and slaves went through is insulting to say the least and paints a distorted picture of history which at the end of it all, fails to add anything of substance to this important debate.
Tony
11:46 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Frank, I appreciate that you are as passionate about this issue as I am. However, you can't make the assumption that people are leaving comfortable lives in their countries of origins. This is a ridiculous statement. Why would they leave? Immigration is not an easy process and most people don’t risk dying at a border crossing only for a chance to look at the Statue of Liberty. Most immigrants are economic refugees, searching for a better future for themselves and their families. And yes, for many of them, the future involves death or near poverty. That is why they send money home: so that the families who stayed behind can aspire to a better future. We could certainly spend hours debating the reasons for mass migrations, including our government's support for dictatorships in Latin America and for the economic policies that further destroy those economies.
Tony
11:46 pm on Tuesday, November 30, 2010
But this is not what your article is about. Your article is about the Dream Act, and it has inconsistencies that need to be addressed. You would benefit a lot from doing some real research on the topic instead of making the baseless statements you made and have been disputed by me and others on this blog. My point about the Jews and the slaves was to show to you that not all laws in the books are always correct. I’m assuming you now agree with that. Those laws were changed by people who thought they could do better. Now we have the opportunity to do better again. These students are risking deportation by staging sit-ins at Senators offices. If you ask me, there is nothing more American than that. And I go further to predict that, 20 years from now, this will be a precious moment in our nation’s history and people like you will be sitting on the wrong side of history. Fear never wins, Frank. Never.
Frank Medina
7:01 am on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
Tony, Not a single DREAMer arrested during sit-ins has been deported. Instead, those who've been processed through the immigration system have each obtained deferred action on their deportation and as you well know, have now been granted employment authorization documents which allow them to now legally work in the U.S. Again, stop trying to romanticize the DREAMers, Rosa Parks they are not. They do not face beatings, dogs, water cannons... They stage sit ins and after getting arrested, they come out of jail guaranteed a benefit they didn't have just hours before.
Believe me when I tell you that I truly hope you are correct that 20 years from now, we can look back and see that I in fact was wrong today. However, if history is any indicator, I know that I am correct. Amnesty advocates made your same arguments 24 years ago regarding the Immigration Reform & Control Act and when passing the six other subsequent amnesty legalization programs since then and well, we see how wrong they've been every time. I guess with your reasoning though, we're all supposed to believe that the eighth time's the charm, right?
You are correct in that fear never wins which is why I'm so curious about why you are so afraid that the American people may actually be introduced to the facts of the DREAM as evidenced by the text of the bill rather than opinions that have proven themselves to be wrong time and time again.
Read the bill:
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/C?c111:./temp/~c111ur9tjd
buckminsterfullerene
5:11 pm on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
your link does not work, here is another one that works of S. 3827
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s111-3827
There are apparently other versions of the DREAM Act that have surfaced recently, the result of discussions and with the republicans and with the purpose of getting their vote, there are about 3 versions I have heard about out there. It seems like the most common change in all of them is the decrease in age from 35 to 30 years, and two of the versions I have seen have additional background checks, increase the conditional status to 10 years, takes away the wording of the bill that would have made it impossible to punish states that give instate tuition to DREAM Act beneficiaries.
If I am not mistaken the version that Reid introduced today was S. 3992, found in the following link http://www.micevhill.com/attachments/immigration_documents/hosted_documents/S3992.pdf
Tony
9:04 am on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
Frank, we obviously disagree on the merits of these students. Coincidentally, it is interesting that you cite Rosa Parks 55 years to the date of her refusal to give her seat up. By the way, there is a list on this site about hate crimes against Latinos. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/winter/immigration-backlash#. There are other such lists. I’m more interested, however, on trying to find common ground with you since we are on different sides of this debate. I agree with you that Regan’s 1986 reform was a failure, and so was the 1996 law (both for opposite reasons though, which would take too long to write in this blog). Does that mean we stop trying to fix it? You are right, the debate is old. In fact, most negative things people point out about the new wave of immigrants was said about the Chinese, the Japanese, the Italians, the Irish, the Jews.
Tony
9:05 am on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
By the wy, I did read the bill and can’t see the things that you point to in previous posts. Expiration date, agree with you there. There is no point of contention. Eligibility for welfare, you are wrong in this point according to current law. Millions to the workforce, aren’t these workers working here already? Isn’t reform a great argument so that everyone is playing by the same rules? Immediately petition for family abroad was already addressed and you are wrong in this point. Preference? There is a six year conditional waiting period before legal residency, etc… But again, let’s find common ground. What should we do with kids we educated and are current living here? How can you tell someone who came here as a minor, some of them speak no language other than English, that this is not their country? What would YOU do?
edla
3:26 pm on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
We need these illegal students to go home, go back work on your own 3rd world countries, we have enough people here, this would free spots for hard working law abiding students here. Parents of these illegals, or the illegals themselves, should be forced to repay all the free education over the years back to taxpayers
Alyx
7:16 pm on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
@edla. Ummm, the "free education" as you claim is not free lol. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've known plenty of immigrant students in my junior high school, AND high school who didn't have "free" education. There IS a thing called school fees and such which HAVE TO BE PAID before one receives a diploma.
AND not ALL the immigrant students come from 3rd world countries, expand your mind, please. There are plenty of countries out there that are as resourceful as America(if not more), in that matter, from which people DO come migrate from.
One more things, if these "hard- working" American students want to get into college so bad, they would keep up the best grades, and do everything possible, just like immigrant students do, to be accepted to a good school. College admittance isn't based on immigration status, my friend, but SAT and ACT scores. Get your information from a legitimate source next time, please. Thanks.
buckminsterfullerene
8:56 pm on Wednesday, December 1, 2010
I would also like to add that one of the only documents immigrants are able to attain from the US government is an ITIN number, that is in order for them to pay taxes. So, its not that they have not paid for their education, in fact many pay taxes but are denied the ability to apply for just about any kind of government services.
Furthermore, the issue with just sending those children back to their home countries, is that they have been here from a very early age, many only know this country and they would be forced to leave against their will the only place they have known and go to a country which may be inferior in many ways, may not speak the language or have the customs that they are used to. The notion that if you deport them then they will fix the country is just wishful thinking, if someone was born in the US, was raised for the entirety of their lives abroad and then just came here and decided to run for office to change the country, you would laugh at them and ignore them, you would not think that they would know enough about this country to be an effective leader, it is probable that it will be the same scenario, if they leave they leave to work but they wont be contributing as much as they are capable of contributing to this country, which they most likely comprehend a lot better then many people give them credit. Recall that this is the DREAM Act and the beneficiaries came as children and graduated from our school system.
Frank Medina
12:39 am on Thursday, December 2, 2010
I have thoroughly enjoyed our discussion on here and thank you all so much for your participation in this important debate. Unfortunately, this debate is now old news. A new DREAM Act bill was introduced Tuesday evening and its provisions are significantly different from those in previous bills. I want all of you to be a part of several follow up articles on the topic (I won't be the author on all of them). If you'd be interested in being interviewed for a future article on the DREAM Act, email me with your contact information. Simply click the "Email the Author" link under the article title above. Thanks again. - frank
jojo
2:35 am on Friday, December 10, 2010
WHAT! i pay over 6000 Dollars per semester for being an international student, i obey the laws, i also came here when i was 14 years old and graduated for high school, Yet the illegals who got worse grades than me are getting a residency? and Nothing for us (International students)?
buckminsterfullerene
10:25 pm on Friday, December 10, 2010
You currently have legal status, and have a potential path to legalization available because you have not been here illegally. The illegals as you call them generally don't have any path to legalization no matter if they did better or worse then you did, there is nothing they can do, yet they came here at a young enough age that they did not have a choice other then what their parents said, furthermore, they are a group of people that may have come into the country as newborns and yet could be deported at any time if they turned over 19 and be banned to countries they don't know for 10 year periods with no guarantee of ever being able to enter to the country where they grew up, even if they are younger and don't acquire any ban their illegal presence would be known and chances are very bleak that they would be able to ever enter legally.
I think that you as an international student deserve a faster process to legalization, I agree with you on that and there should be something done about that, specially for people like you, and I know someone else that is in your same situation who after completing his education there was no choice but to change to a worker's visa status which is very very stressful because your legal status depends on whether your company keeps your job position or not.